Studio mic - for seamless white bg takes?

[donjohannes]

Hi,

Recently I finished a DVD project which was short of a complete night mare on the audio side, graciously gving me the opportunity to learn a lot - on the side of what not to do. Nevertheless the project proved very successful - maybe not due to the best quality but because there is nothing out there of its kind in the German speaking world ( see the result here http://www.vimeo.com/6115867 )

Lesson 1
I recorded in a class room. I was all alone. It was dark...(no it wasn't dark, but saying so makes for more drama :happy: but I was indeed alone) Used a Sennheiser ew100 G2 lav mic. The sound check was for levels and all - all seemed ok-ish, but did not leave me convinced: Time pressing I did the recordings since I had to free up the class room. Then I sat in front of the computer with an unhappy face because the audio was not too great. Too hollow, echo-y, just not good. Lesson 1: Do a crash course in Sound Treatment. Check.

Lesson 2
Doing dubbing is painful - really painful, even if it is yourself you are dubbing. Avoid at all costs. Yes I knew that beforehand, but so I was stuck with it, with all the unnaturalness that came with the new voice track. Lesson 2: Put this exercise on the no-no list. Check.

To make it short(er). Many more lessons learned, most of them too late.

However given the success I will venture to do something like this again. So I'm looking for advice. Given that I won't simply do audio in the studio/classroom but also film, I can't simply take a nice sounding studio mic (I use a Rode NT1A for simple voice overs) and put it in front of myself (or a talent, should I expand from being a one-man project). Should I....

1) forget about all mic questions, since success will lie in sound treatment alone - or mostly.

2) learn how to better employ the sennheiser since it is a great mic - and it is all your fault if it sounded anything but perfect.

3) stick with the sennheiser ew100 g2 kit, but replace the actual lav mic from the kit with this ........................... one. Suggestions? Note: I checked the ew100 mic in different environments, with mixed results in quality since to me the low frequencies always seem to me very powerful, but then I might have simply cranked up the bass to much on my pc speakers....

4) forget the sennheiser and use this .............. mic, or a mic of this ................ type, which is much better than a lav in the studio environment you will be shooting in. Note: The talent does not move around too much, so technically I would have the possibility and room for some mic hanging from the ceiling.

5) give up and ride a bicycle over the green alpine pastures of Liechtenstein instead....

Thanks folks for always being helpful,
Johannes

 

[Alex H.]

Hello, Johannes!

This really boils down to proper implementation of what you have. The G2 system can yield great results. I would recommend, however, upgrading the lav to something like a Countryman B6 or Sanken COS11. While it is difficult to guarantee great audio when you are shooting your own stand-ups, it can be done. Just be sure to give yourself enough headroom when you sound check, and set the second record channel as a safety at about -6dB lower than the first.

Of course, your other option very well may be an overhead mic on a boom stand, if you (or any other talent) will be standing/sitting in the same place. For indoors, you'll want a hypercardioid condenser (Oktava MK012, Audio Technica 4053a, AKG Blue Line). Outdoors, your first choice would be a shotgun (Rode NTG2 or NTG-3). Add movement to the shot and you'll need a boom op there.

I remember your earlier post about ADR on this piece, and part of your concern was the sound of the room. I'd find a place less reflective than the classroom if at all possible, but it that's what you have to work with, you might look at hanging some sound blankets to help diffuse the place. But a properly-placed lav can increase the amount of direct signal over room reflections that will be recorded.

Success in audio does not "lie in sound treatment alone." It's about recording right the first time. Get the Sound for Film and TV DVD and learn all you can about getting great audio. It's not all about the right gear... most of it is knowing how to use the equipment. And the more complex the shoot, or roughly 90% of the time, the more likely you'll benefit from hiring a real audio person who knows/has the gear.

Once you've completed your next project and oyu know that it sounds as good as it looks, treat yourself to that bike ride!

 

[donjohannes]

Yes C2V it's me the ADR troubled guy again. Thanks, this is some great advice.

I'll check out the lavs you suggested. I also never thought about the second channel as safety. Good idea.

now on to that bike ride (as a little advance)
Johannes

 

[unclebob6958]

Success in audio does not "lie in sound treatment alone." It's about recording right the first time... It's not all about the right gear... most of it is knowing how to use the equipment. And the more complex the shoot, or roughly 90% of the time, the more likely you'll benefit from hiring a real audio person who knows/has the gear.

It IS about the gear, but not how pricey it is (lot's of very nice things have been done on budget gear); it's about using the correct tools for each job and how to use them properly. It's also about other types of knowledge. Just as cameras aren't simply point and shoot, audio isn't just plug it in and it works. Even things that seem obvious - such as keeping the mic pointed at the mouth of the person speaking - often seem to get overlooked by the inexperienced.

Each craft has its own set of "rules", techniques and levels of complexity. No one can know it all, but you can learn the basics, acquire the basic tools for the job and then ruthlessly adhere to the "rules". As with any other discipline it takes time, practice and experimentation.

 

[paulears]

I watched the video, and I was expecting it to be terrible. It wasn't. As you have a full body shot it was easy to spot the lav clipped on the front near the buttons. The classroom is certainly reverberant, BUT it's not as bad as many.

My gut feeling from looking and listening is that the main problem is simply placement. The G2 unit you're using I assume has the standard omni directional lav. It is simply too far away from the mouth. I estimate it is 300-400mm away from your mouth. Move it up to half that distance, or maybe even attach it to the collar, pointing downwards. Remember omnis can point any direction, it doesn't matter, and downwards prevents your breath making them pop. What happens is that you are controlling the balance between wanted sound (you) and unwanted sound (the room). Moving just a short distance towards the sound source makes a big difference, due to the inverse square law. Half the distance and you are four times louder. The ratio between wanted and unwanted sound will be improved.

The other thing you could do would be to attempt to control some of the room sound. With hard surfaces on all 6 surfaces in a normal 'square' room, covering just one with something soft can make big differences to reflected energy. Is there anything like a freestanding white board, or screen anywhere? If so, get a cheap duvet, and drape it over the white board. Place it to one side, or behind the camera and see what effect it has. All it has to do is absorb some energy in the speech band, then you can roll off the very bass end where it has little impact - which won't alter the voice much, but stop the boominess at the bottom end.

Personally, swapping to a much more expensive microphone may not show much improvement, unless you can control the room. I still like MKE-2 Sennheisers, but DPA and Countrymans are quite acceptable - however, the room colouration is the big problem here, not the quality of the microphone itself.

Oddly, even though I'm not a German speaker, what you have done has a really good feel.

 

[donjohannes]

@unclebob

Yep, there is much learning needed...and I have so little time, doing this only between my actual pastoral work in the night hours...

@paul

thanks for the input. It's difficult for a "Kraut"-speaker to get a "really good feel" comment ;-)

As for the audio you hear in the video - this is actually the Rode NT1-A in my office in the attempt to ADR away the bad audio. Since my office is no studio either, there are shortcomings here too. I should upload a sample with the original audio. But listening to the original I think you are right - I should try with different mic positions and see if that helps. The upside down idea is interesting. I've give it go next time

 

[Alex H.]

It IS about the gear, but not how pricey it is (lot's of very nice things have been done on budget gear);

Thanks, Unclebob. If you notice, I said:

It's not all about the right gear...

It's not ALL about the right gear. Yes, the right gear is very important... but a decent mic in skilled hands is going to turn out better results than a premium mic in inexperienced hands.