Studio layout advice requested

[Mitch Gross]

I agree a private office space is always handy, one that has a door that can be shut. There are always people who need to make a phone call, often on behalf of the production at hand. How often is that greenscreen space really going to be used, and culd it easily do double-duty as a production office?

 

[firehawk]

I agree a private office space is always handy, one that has a door that can be shut. There are always people who need to make a phone call, often on behalf of the production at hand. How often is that greenscreen space really going to be used, and culd it easily do double-duty as a production office?

I think it easily could

 

[morgan_moore]

Good point on the dumpster I didnt' think about clients filling it up and leaving their junk!

Rubbish can be from 20 coffee cups through to 50 sheets of pasterboard and a load of click together floor.. or even a plywood millenium falcon cockpit (I joke not)

The best option is to help the client .. so deal with that rubbish with a smile and another line on the invoice.

 

[morgan_moore]

On the accomodation of producers I guess there is are big cultural variances across the industry and across nations. My experience is that the 'high end' folks might be more used to operating from a tent or shed while the mid level people are really almost going on a day out or adventure (they only do this twice a year) and those folk need that more cofortable zone.. or a more likely to rebook if they have it. They dont do much apart from cast their eye over almost done work and are 80% idle in terms of this shoot and therefore use the time for other thinkgs, be that expence claiming or browsing for the next holiday.

In all of this there is no right or wrong

 

[morgan_moore]

On stairs. A little interet waddling comes up at an angle of 30-40* degrees. For an office staircase and one that might move make up cases, and lights , the slacker angle would be best.

If one guesses the top floor at 13ft of the bottom floor (12foot +joists) then a 30 degree stair will take 23 foot without a curve or landing

place that on the green 30ft screen room wall and there is some space.. which could sustain a door.

having a landing and turn should reduce the 23ft, hence the turn in my fancy design. In fact a central stair without turn would probably not work without foul the entrance.


*180-150=30

 

[Run&Gun]

On the accomodation of producers I guess there is are big cultural variances across the industry and across nations. My experience is that the 'high end' folks might be more used to operating from a tent or shed while the mid level people are really almost going on a day out or adventure (they only do this twice a year) and those folk need that more cofortable zone.. or a more likely to rebook if they have it. They dont do much apart from cast their eye over almost done work and are 80% idle in terms of this shoot and therefore use the time for other thinkgs, be that expence claiming or browsing for the next holiday.

In all of this there is no right or wrong

I agree with Morgan. The “mid-tier” and corporate folks tend to be the ones that want the “experience”, where as the higher-end and more experienced that really know how the sausage is made, are more used to varied and hardcore production environments.

Now all that isn’t to say that the studio shouldn’t be nice, after all, this is a permanent indoor facility, not a field shoot in the middle of nowhere, but I’ve been around the “kids on a field trip” / “kids on spring break” and I know what you’re talking about.

 

[firehawk]

Do you guys recommend a window in the makeup room to allow in sunlight? Or is it better to just isolate it with only light fixtures (daylight and tungsten color) available at the mirror?
I'm working with architect on a revised plan.

 

[Run&Gun]

Artificial light only(or be able to COMPLETELY block out the light from outside) and be able to light the room with the same lights that talent will be lit with in the studio.

 

[firehawk]

Thank you Run&Gun

 

[firehawk]

We looked at several ideas and associated costs including a block studio. Looks like we are going to go with a box in a box approach -a pre engineered metal building for the outer shell and build a "pole barn" type structure with roof inside the PEMB to give us isolation from exterior noise.
The PEMB will have insulated walls and roof. The inner box building will be insulated with sound deadening materials (yet to be determined) to help with interior reverb.

2 walls of the interior box will be against the PEMB walls so do we need to leave a gap between walls of a couple inches to give help keep exterior noise from getting inside both walls to the studio? Does the gap allow penetrating sound to bounce between walls and be stopped versus having 2 walls built right against each other and sound pass through?

 

[Mitch Gross]

An air gap is an amazing thing for reducing sound transmission. Just turn on the TV in a room, step outside and close the door. There's a huge difference between listening with your ear against the door v an inch from the door.

You should talk to the architect but applying insulating foam on inner & outer walls while maintaining an air gap as well as a vapor barrier may all count towards both audio isolation and temperature insulation. A double win.

 

[firehawk]

Thank you Mitch. Will do

 

[firehawk]

Hi guys. We've changed some things. Plan is to build an insulated wood framed box building in an insulated PEMB box building to help with ext sound blocking.
Should the elec panel be where it is or inside the studio space?

I lost the dedicated greenscreen sound room but am making up for it by sound treating the main studio better instead.
The audio booth is on an outside wall so I'd have to proof that side extra.
There is no mezzanine now but there are 2 ways the big cheese can monitor the studio stage plus also watch it via TV screen feed by a high camera.
No green room, but there is "green lounge space" below the makeup/dressing/restroom and restroom/dressing room and kitchen area.
The upstairs is isolated so no one but me ever needs to go up there. and they won't know if I'm there or not
I'm still hoping to be able to incorporate a ~20-24' wide green screen wall but have black curtains to cover it up.
Architect has plan for quiet A/C into the studio and also extra cooling in the edit/office to keep the hot render PCs cool during long renders.
18' high at the grid.
I can park and load the Van indoors without pulling into the studio (until I fill up all the garage storage with sets anyway! )
Thoughts?

e

 

[firehawk]

What are your thoughts about the cyc wall? Once the 2'-10" coves are installed, the 38' wide white cyc loses almost 6 feet across so it's barely over 32' wide across the floor.

If I also ran a cove across the entire bottom instead of just part then I could have a 47' wall across the bottom in case I ever needed that large of a cyc. Problem with that is there is a support column at the bottom but we could build the inner building differently so that wall could be smooth across.
In a room that is only 50'X38' to start with do you think a 32' wide cyc is limiting and a 47' side option would be a good idea?

 

[say_doyster]

My current shooting area (never built a cyc into the current space but had a 24'x24' corner cove in a previous studio) is currently 38' across and 40' deep. It was 40'x60' but I have changed the usage over the years. The shooting area has a 10'x30' Chimera Soft box (adjustible height - 13 ft off the ground - and angle) hanging in the center of the 38' width about 8' off the back wall. When empty, the space seems really large, but the minute a car enters the stage, it feels small. The reason, additional storage is at a premium in my space.

I actually need more space for storage now than I do for shooting, so I have one observation - is there any way to add storage space (even if items are suspended from the ceiling in the area next to the grid far opposite the main cyc (that space tends to be wasted and hard to access). Also, get rid of the two side cyc walls and go directly into the corners making the cyc a full 38'. Just paint the walls the same color as the cyc. I know for motion shooting it might not be perfect, but for stills it is not a problem.

I have built four studios in my 45 years. This last one is over 30 years old and has served me well (the one previous was only 1600 sq ft and I never thought i could use all the space I curently have). But no space is perfect. The key is having enough flex space to allow for future change and adaptability. And only you can really dig into this design to determine if it will cover all the curveballs you may find thrown your way.

Great evolution so far. Lots of great ideas and experience being offered!! Will keep following with great interest.

 

[firehawk]

Thank you very much. After looking at it more I am thinking I should run the white cyc out to about 25' deep instead of 20'. Thoughts?
A partial 2nd "floor" for storage could be built above the garage/rough storage area.
I don't want to have any storage platform to the left of the white cyc wall above where the crew will be working do I? Could impede jibs. And introduce support columns in the work area. Seems like a lot of open wasted unused space up there, though.
Since the studio will be it's own box we can build it's ceiling to support weight where needed.

I want to get something like a 10'X30' chimera soft box adjustable height eventually like you have

 

[morgan_moore]

If you are sounding the big stage that means it will have a roof? In that case it’s a no brainer to have storage up top? Stuff also eats sound.

I still think the little room should have a 8ft green screen and be Uber treated. A big space with hard wall is not so great for sound even if insulated

Producer watching a big monitor cannot comment in - will they even have audio? That feels too remote. And a second monitor for picture of course

 

[Mitch Gross]

No reason to have 3-sided cyc. Two is plenty and you should extend it down the wall where you plan to have green screen. Then get rid of that green screen because it's just in the way, will get dirty and need constant upkeep, and can just be a popup screen you put wherever you want -- vastly more flexible and convenient.

There needs to be a better dedicated green room / dressing room space. Sometimes talent is the most important person on set. Don't shoehorn them into a cubby.

My experience with studios says there's not enough storage. The gear needs more room and the area for storing & building sets needs to be bigger. This often becomes quite an advantage for a studio -- I know a few that evolved pretty decent wood shops for set building and while the shoot days may only rent for two days out of the week the shop is occupied by the same gig for the whole week so in the end you make more money.

 

[say_doyster]

I am not talking about a storage platform, but rather hanging appropriate items that might be able to be suspended and then pulled to the ceiling (kind of like theater backdrops and various types of props). The particulars are not as important as reviewing the space for how the choices you are making might evolve over time as demands change. How many times have you seen a shower used as a storage closet?

Yes, as I face the cyc wall, I would paint/finish everything as far out as possible (even 30+ feet) because all of that space can reflect off of shiny/mirrorlike reflective (subject) surfaces. I painted everything black that was not visible in the actual shots and I am glad I did. I have found it much easier to add reflections (or fill) than hide them (but it is a close call sometimes). You can always paint the cyc for a project and charge enough so you can paint it back to the color you want when the project is complete.

My personal experience (only about a dozen smaller projects) with greenscreen has been with fabric (and they do make some really large fabric greenscreens - 12x24; and these can be sewn together). If that works, then you can put dampening materials behind the fabric to help with sound deadening. It is fairly easy to hang the fabrics so no permanent installation is necessary.

Every circumstance has unique requirements and we all have our own experiences and approaches. I am just pointing out things that I have stumbled on and offering them up for you to consider. What you need ultimately might be quite diffderent than what I have needed. The common elements are light and a flexible space large enough to stage shoots often and profitably.

Bill

EDIT - because of the way the floor plan currently works, I do not see how a curved corner is of any real value. When shooting into the corner, your ability to back up the camera if needed is reduced because the diagonal will put you against the wall sooner than shooting directly into the 38 ft wall where you have the full depth of the room. And I think the 38 ft width is far more important than the corner cove (especially as it is much harder to light a tight corner with a 17in (half of 34in) radius, especially at the ground level corner (I used a 32in radius in my previous studio and it was difficult to light). YMMV

 

[firehawk]

Thank you Bill, Mitch and Morgan again much!
Attached are pics of building as-is with none of the latest discussed changes yet.


I can see there is not enough storage for dealing with/building props. We can plan on having the ceiling of the studio strong enough to hoist props up above plus bearing load to hang lights. I'll need to figure out devices to safely raise and suspend them.
Maybe we can extend the rough storage/garage another 10' so it's 34' wide instead of 24'. And in the future build a platform above part of it too.

Every circumstance has unique requirements and we all have our own experiences and approaches. I am just pointing out things that I have stumbled on and offering them up for you to consider. What you need ultimately might be quite diffderent than what I have needed. The common elements are light and a flexible space large enough to stage shoots often and profitably.

Thinking ahead to future adaptations is key and that is one of many areas I fall short. My initial approach was merely solving the things I've wanted for my projects through the years but I have no experience using a studio and letting others use my studio. Thankfully you guys help to look at it from a rentable and growth perspective.

The white cyc is particulary perplexing for me since I've never used a permanent one. If I pulled a 15' long car by that 38' right side wall, angled toward camera won't I likely need the curved cyc corners to avoid having hard corners come into frame on a wide shot?
Or how about if I staged some furniture with actors and needed to pan the camera a bit?
Or had a group of dancers?
My limited brain seems to think that if I'm using any much more than a straight on shot I will need at least one curved side?


I certainly want more gear storage but I am hoping that since some of my gear will remain in the van, and some hard gear such as stands remain in the studio and rough storage area, that only climate tempered "nice" gear will go in the gear storage such as cameras, mics, fog machines, etc. So it might be enough space with shelves. Hard to say..

I want a dedicated proper green room and also a totally sound bullet proof green screen audio room but it's hard to work all that in so I'll have to look at this more.