struggling with my hmc151 :(

igetcha

Active member
hi guys,

im a video reviewer and also make tutorial and demonstration vids. ive always used a consumer panasonic HD camera and have always been pleased with the results, but as demand for my demo and tutorial vid work is increasing i thought i would take my vids to the next level and get the HMC151.

now i appreciate that there is a world of difference between the 151 and a consumer camera but im really struggling to get a decent and consistant picture...........mainly due to what i believe may be a white balance issue (not sure though!)

problem 1:-

the LCD does not seem to show correctly the actual image that is being captured. for example, the LCD will show a image that seems very bright and washed out with colours appearing in a certain way. but when played back on my NLE it looks completely different.
ive spent many hours tinkering and testing to match it to what appears in my NLE but with no joy. i read on this forum that the LCD is not the best so yesterday i purchased a seperate monitor. i managed to get the picture on the monitor to look great but again, when i put the footage into my NLE it looks completely different.

ive played around with the scene files, ATW, iris and the actual LCD and monitor settings but im just failing miserably :(


problem 2:-

this is my main issue and i really hope its just me being a noob! my skin tone and colours in general change during recording.

one minute my skin tone seems normal, then im bright red, then dark brown, then really white and pale!

this is where i think its my white balance settings where something is going wrong!

when i record my vids i sit stationary in front of a green screen. i have soft boxes to light the screen but mainly use natural daylight to light myself. the colour changes coincide with when the sun goes behind a cloud and then comes out again etc.
ive tried using the automatic settings and manual settings, set the white balance, set the black levels etc but again with no joy.

ive also tried shooting with no natural daylight and instead have used soft boxes to light the screen and more soft boxes to light myself. this has helped a little but i still get issues whenever i hold something white or shiny metal to the camera so viewers can see it in more detail. (i dont mean that im holding it inches away from the lens, just literally holding it at arms length slightly closer to the camera)

as soon as i do that then im back to being either bright white, brown, red or very pale looking!


these things also affect the colour of my green screen which as you can imagine then causes more problems when keying it out :(



i realise that i am a complete noob when it comes to using a more complex camera such as the HMC151 and its probably me at fault rather than the camera, so please be kind in your responses!


cheers,

scott



ps.........ive ordered barry's book so im hoping that will help! :)
 
problem 1:-
....i managed to get the picture on the monitor to look great but again, when i put the footage into my NLE it looks completely different.

What's your NLE? Do you use the same calibrated monitor with your camera and NLE? If you use FCP and monitor your footage on the computer screen you might be experiencing gamma issue - FCP adjusts the gamma of the footage to match the default Mac display settings (gamma 1.8).

problem 2:-
One minute my skin tone seems normal, then im bright red, then dark brown, then really white and pale!

This is very strange. Three possible reasons I can think of:
1. You're shooting in auto mode (and have auto white-balance or auto-iris on). Just check your AUTO/MANUAL switch once again
2. You put to much pressure on your talents ;)
3. You got the lemon...
 
hi mate,

thank you for the reply. i use sony vegas pro 9 as my NLE and i have not tried to hook my camera up to it yet to see what it looks like. to be honest, i didnt even know it was possible! but i will definitely give that a try :)

is there a correct way to calibrate the monitor? i know the camera has the colour bar........is that to do with calibration? is it a case of getting some sort of colour chart and holding it up to the monitor and then adjusting the monitors colour settings???


i have tried shooting in both auto and manual modes. manual is definitely better, but i find that if the sun suddenly gets brighter or i hold up a shiny metal object then the picture goes crazy and becomes completely bright white / yellow. when recording im not really in a position to quickly jump up and turn the iris down as my reviews are shot in one continuous take.

thank you for your reply, if you have any more advice i would really appreciate it :)

cheers,

scott

ps......do you know of any specific settings or scene file that i should consider when doing green screen work?
 
My suggestions would be:

1. Shoot in manual
2. Set the white balance manually
3. Control the lighting so there are no changes in the lighting during the shoot
4. Use the waveform monitor to make sure your exposure is correct
5. Set it to scene file 1 for a neutral (TV) type look
6. Get Barry's HMC150 book

It took me a while to get used to this camera when I started and I made many mistakes with exposure and white balance. This takes time and practice to get right, but it's worth the effort.

A couple of extra tips. I have noticed that the viewfinder is quite good for judging exposure and white balance. Also, the LCD screen needs to be viewed straight on, it is tempting to tilt it slightly which gives a brighter but washed out looking image (as you described). Looking at it straight on it is darker and more like the viewfinder image, similar to what the actual output will look like on a calibrated monitor.

Hope that helps.
 
hi guys,
problem 1:-
the LCD does not seem to show correctly the actual image that is being captured. for example, the LCD will show a image that seems very bright and washed out with colours appearing in a certain way. but when played back on my NLE it looks completely different.

ive spent many hours tinkering and testing to match it to what appears in my NLE but with no joy. i read on this forum that the LCD is not the best so yesterday i purchased a seperate monitor. i managed to get the picture on the monitor to look great but again, when i put the footage into my NLE it looks completely different.

ive played around with the scene files, ATW, iris and the actual LCD and monitor settings but im just failing miserably :(

How are you judging the scene on the LCD? Have you just been looking at it and adjusting until it looks right? The 151 has some specific tools to help you get the correct exposure, and these include the Zebra functions (very important) and the Waveform display. If you have not been used to using these, take some time now to learn them, you will certainly not regret doing so, and your ability to get exposure right in the camera should improve dramatically.

Zebras are turned on using the ZEBRA button on the main panel and the factory defaults are 80% and 100%. Use these to see any clipping. This indicates areas of over exposure.

The waveform is a little more complicated, but basically displays the luma values across the entire scene, left to right. Again, look for any hot/cold spots and adjust as appropriate.

Always shoot the situation you describe in manual exposure, i.e. manual shutter, manual iris, manual white balance, manual gain. Don't let the camera automate anything.

Next, unless you have colour calibrated/profiled your NLE monitor, all bets are off. You need to buy a monitor calibration/profiling tool to do this (they are very easy to use), something like a Colorvision Spider 2 or a Gretag Macbeth EyeOne Display. Also, an external monitor on the camera is not likely to be color calibrated,and may also have brightness & colour differences to the real world, so again, it should not be used to just exposure with any sort of accuracy. You can only really use it for framing and focus, and not for exposure. Use the zebra and waveform tools for exposure and also use the built in vector scope to check white balance if you are unsure. Again, if you are unfamiliar with these tools, take the time to learn then NOW.

problem 2:-
this is my main issue and i really hope its just me being a noob! my skin tone and colours in general change during recording.

one minute my skin tone seems normal, then im bright red, then dark brown, then really white and pale!

this is where i think its my white balance settings where something is going wrong!

when i record my vids i sit stationary in front of a green screen. i have soft boxes to light the screen but mainly use natural daylight to light myself. the colour changes coincide with when the sun goes behind a cloud and then comes out again etc.
ive tried using the automatic settings and manual settings, set the white balance, set the black levels etc but again with no joy.

Shooting in changing light means the white balance is changing when ever the light changes. If you have the camera white balance set to sunny and then it goes cloudy, the colour temperature of the light falling on your subject has changed, so the white balance seen by the camera is now wrong.

ive also tried shooting with no natural daylight and instead have used soft boxes to light the screen and more soft boxes to light myself. this has helped a little but i still get issues whenever i hold something white or shiny metal to the camera so viewers can see it in more detail. (i dont mean that im holding it inches away from the lens, just literally holding it at arms length slightly closer to the camera)

as soon as i do that then im back to being either bright white, brown, red or very pale looking!

these things also affect the colour of my green screen which as you can imagine then causes more problems when keying it out :(

In constant lighting, your skin tone should not change at all. If you have correctly set the white balance (and you are using manual white balance) the only thing likely to effect your skin tone is reflections from what ever you are holding OR perhaps reflections from the green screen coming back off something in front of you.

If however you left the camera in auto white balance then any change to the content of the frame can effect the white balance the camera will use.

The idea of shooting green screen by lighting just the background and hoping to use natural light for the subject is shaky at best. Natural light is always changing, and you cannot hope to maintain a constant white balance in natural light unless you are bang on mid day with an unchanging over cast cloudy day. Even then it's not something I would attempt. :)
 
Last edited:
hi all,

thank you very much for your replies, they have all been extremely helpfull!

im going to have a day of shooting tomorrow and will put your advice into action.........will let you know how i get on :)

thanks again, i appreciate it!

cheers,

scott
 
Back
Top