Strobing/ Lack of Blur on pans?

diego1235467

diego1235467

Well-known member
So I've been reading as much as I can about this camera (I'm making the switch from DVX), and I've seen many videos that seem to strobe with movement or pans. It's like there is no motion blur

Does anyone know how to avoid this, and what's causing it?

Here are some examples.


At 5:14-518, look at the cars. I see no motion blur.
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I AGREE


I love this video, but again, I don't see any motion blur, and the footage seem to "strobe" with the pans.
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I AGREE
 
Well you can always go to 1/30 or 1/40 to get more blur but it might be too much. I think a lot of people are forgetting that this is a $1500 (in 2009 anyway) camera. It just can't and won't be able to match a film camera and it's ability to have that smooth motion blur going on. You have to work your way around these things or pay for a better camera. Instead of quick pans do slow and steady pans on a fluid head tripod. I see so many examples of this strobing but they are 99% hand held situations. You just can't expect to whip the camera around following somebody on a bike doing tricks to get that smooth film look imo. Go to 720p for stuff like that. This camera rocks because it has so many options to choose from for the task at hand. No matter what, everybody is not going to be satisfied with the technology. The thing that matters in my view is the content and doing the best you can with the equipment you have.
 
I'm just checking up on these problems because I'm considering making the switch to the GH1 from a DVX. I'm just not convinced that it's a smart idea, but at the same time many people seem to be doing it.
 
diego1235467 said:
I'm just checking up on these problems because I'm considering making the switch to the GH1 from a DVX. I'm just not convinced that it's a smart idea, but at the same time many people seem to be doing it.
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I just bought the GH1 myself and I am considering selling my HPX170 and Letus Ultimate. I still haven't made up my mind 100% yet tho. If I still had a DVX I'd say it's a no brainer. Sell it while you can, or just have both.
 
diego1235467 said:
I'm just checking up on these problems because I'm considering making the switch to the GH1 from a DVX. I'm just not convinced that it's a smart idea, but at the same time many people seem to be doing it.
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That's cool man. I'm just saying don't get caught up in the hype too much. You can't beat the bang for the buck on these things. Sometimes you just gotta take the plunge and make the best of it. I got mine the first month it was released and shortly after the 7D came out. I hesitated for a minute there because I thought maybe I should have waited but I just kept using it and knew it had more potential. I just banked on the idea that somebody would unlock it's goodness and now I'm starting to feel psychic.

You also have to keep in mind that most of the stuff people are viewing is streaming video on the internet. It is very possible to really mess up the compression for web viewing. Sometimes you will see a video online that looks pristine and others look not so good. Usually the pristine video is the result of somebody knowing the optimal settings for the sight they are uploading to.
 
diego1235467 said:
The "Lateral Motion Test" was done at 1/50.
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I'd double check all your settings. Make sure you are shooting FHD. Frankly, I see so little rolling shutter effect that I'm unconvinced that this was shot at 24fps on a GH1.

Make sure you have the setting on manual to make sure you know what the shutter speed is. In order to get around 1/50th of a second, you had to have the aperture at f/22 or so. Was that the case?

I saw lots of motion blur on the guitars in the first clip. No surprise since those were inside.

There is no problem getting motion blur with the GH1. If your shutter were at 1/50 second, you'd have blur across about 1/2 the distance that any object moved in the frame. We don't see that. That indicates that the shutter speed wasn't 1/50 second. If I were to guess, I'd guess you had the camera in an aperture preferred mode. You got blur on the guitars not because your motion was axial, but because there was less light and a slower shutter speed was used. It can be hard to get a slow shutter speed in daylight unless you use an extreme aperture setting or some ND and/or polarizing filters.
 
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I'm starting college, and will be doing short films soon. Up until now, I've done only "music video" things.

The WORST thing about the DVX for me is the banding on colors like red and blue. It makes the image look pretty nasty, and I think I could put up with the jello and strobing more than the banding.

All in all, would you guys recommend that I ditch my DVX for the GH1? Ideally I'd have both, but I have to sell my DVX to buy the GH1. Even once I sell it I won't have quite enough, but my mom is willing to help me out a little. I figure with the HD craze, I should be able to pay her back after I shoot a few music vids.
 
Nitsuj said:
That's cool man. I'm just saying don't get caught up in the hype too much...
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This is true to a point. Diego are you a hobbyist or do you make a living off these things? I myself Work as a DP and also rent out camera gear. I watched my HPX rentals go down from 3-4 rentals a week. I think last month I had 3 rentals the entire month. Everyone in Minneapolis here seems to be going the way of the DSLR. Personally I like the CCD chips and the 422 color of the P2 cameras more so than the full raster HD of the DSLRs myself but I think I'm in the minority, at least in this town. So a DSLR with higher bitrates and 422 will tide me over until the next big thing comes out. And hopefully I can still get a little bit of money for my HPX if I sell soon.
 
Well if you got the gear to go with it then I'd say go for it. You really need a two part system video/audio. So the zoom H4n is an excellent choice. I also got a couple of lavaliers and the Rhode NTG-2. I didn't get the zoom at first and a short I did suffered greatly in the audio because of that. That and a tripod should do the trick. Then all you have to do is purchase glass as you come across any good deals. The beauty of this system is being able to buy glass that will outlast the camera. So you just upgrade your camera in the future and still get to use a great lens you got along the way.
 
Brian@202020 said:
This is true to a point. Diego are you a hobbyist or do you make a living off these things? I myself Work as a DP and also rent out camera gear. I watched my HPX rentals go down from 3-4 rentals a week. I think last month I had 3 rentals the entire month. Everyone in Minneapolis here seems to be going the way of the DSLR. Personally I like the CCD chips and the 422 color of the P2 cameras more so than the full raster HD of the DSLRs myself but I think I'm in the minority, at least in this town. So a DSLR with higher bitrates and 422 will tide me over until the next big thing comes out. And hopefully I can still get a little bit of money for my HPX if I sell soon.
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Oh for sure man. Actually it is a toss up to either buy your own equipment or rent. Lets say you got $7k to spend do you A) buy your equipment and then hope to get some more money down the road to make a film or B) make a movie with your money. It is a real hard choice. If you got the script and you just know it is ready for the plunge then rent the equipment and make your movie. I went with A) and sometimes I wonder if I should have just made a film instead. However I now have time on my side if I don't have the $ so its just a matter of what moves you I suppose.

Oh and of course $7k would really really be risking it to actually make a film for that. $7k these days won't get you very far. That is the main reason I chose to just get my own equipment and try to later raise the $ for a film with a more manageable budget.
 
OK - so I watched the other two videos. Almost all of it was taken ... drumroll ... outside. That means lots of light and a very high likelihood of fast shutter speeds. One clip at the amusement park/pier was taken inside an arcade. Guess what you can see there. Yep ... motion blur (on people's feet.)

Get some ND filters for your lens and slow the shutter down. You'll get the motion blur you are looking for.
 
Brian@202020 said:
He's right. I just got the Fader ND yesterday. I played around with it a bit today and it's pretty slick. I'd look into something like that.
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Yeah - there are two brands of "faders." Very cool. I'm too cheap for that. But if you are serious about filmmaking, that's probably the way to go.
 
First of all, these aren't my tests, I only posted them here. I'm going by what the original posters said. In the first video, he said he was positive it was 1/50, and he's confused as to why that strobing is happening. I decided to post the same question here since I've noticed it as well, and no one was giving him good answers.

On to the other questions. As of now I'm a hobbyist, but would like to make music videos for clients, not for a living though. I'm only a student right now, so I can't afford much gear. My plan would be to make some videos for profit, and invest that into more camera gear. If I were to buy a GH1, that's all I'd have for a while. No mics, no shoulder mount, no glass, etc. I'd have to shoot a few vids with a barebones cam until I got some cash together. Oh, and of course I have a tripod. Like I said, even if I sell my DVX I won't have quite enough to get the GH1, so I'd have to borrow some cash. That's leaves out any potential accessories for a while.

My ultimate goal is to be a film director, and at this point I plan on studying film. The cam would be used for music videos and short films.

Could someone please refer me to a few videos of the GH13 that have plenty of motion in it? Not so much that it looks like crap, but some good videos that show what to expect from movement on the GH1, including blur.

Even "professional" tests that I've seen (and downloaded the original file) seem to be slightly jumpy. Like this one. It's subtle, but it's definitely there.
 
diego1235467 said:
First of all, these aren't my tests, I only posted them here. I'm going by what the original posters said. In the first video, he said he was positive it was 1/50, and he's confused as to why that strobing is happening. I decided to post the same question here since I've noticed it as well, and no one was giving him good answers.
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OK. So I posted the answer for him just now.

One thing I added to the answer was that 24fps, while preferred by many is not what I prefer. The frame rate is too slow IMO and I frequently see "shuddering" in movies. I find it intrusive. Others love how 24fps make HD seem "filmic." IMO, it just makes the medium being used more obvious. I prefer that the medium be more transparent. After all, it is the medium, not the subject.

I don't know all the science, but in the past I've read that the nature of the display also affects our perceptions of what makes a particular frame rate acceptable. There was a reason that the NTSC engineers went with the convoluted 60 field NTSC system (Yes, the fact that AC was 60hz was a key reason, but they could have gone with a 30 frame system and not 60 fields.) With the self-illuminating screen, they felt the extra frame rate was important. I think at least partially to deal with flickering as well as smoothness of motion.

And it is no accident that HDTV standard are either 60 frame/sec or 60 field/sec and not 24fps. 24 fps is simply doesn't record motion as well. And with digital transmission and display, we can have whatever frame rate we want. The efficiencies of syncing to the 60hz of AC power just doesn't matter any more.

I know that many people seem to love 24 fps. Well that's OK. Different strokes and all that. But 24 fps presents problems with shuddering (juddering?). This isn't a GH1 issue, it is a 24 fps issue. You have to shoot understanding its limitations if you want to minimize its intrusion.

Welcome to film school.
 
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