Trust me, I'm not delusional.
On the subject of money though, I'll give you some inside dope Zak. Come closer, yes, now listen...one word my friend, one word: plastics.
Strike Update
- Thread starter brianluce
- Start date
Trust me, I'm not delusional.
On the subject of money though, I'll give you some inside dope Zak. Come closer, yes, now listen...one word my friend, one word: plastics.
alex whitmer
Veteran
Long term is never a problem if you have the means to ride out the stike.
If you don not have those means, then the only thing that matters is the short term, and the short term means you are out of work and out of money.
I don't celebrate Christmas, but millions do, and this Christmas is really going to suck for a lot of people that do not have the long term means.
People get behind on mortgages, car payments, utilities, and life expenses. Yea, maybe in the long term writers will benefit, but the short term screwing of the 'little people' never sits well with me. I seriously doubt they were asked if they would mind taking a big F'n hit for posterity.
Fact is a toilet cleaner doesn't even show up on radar. But they are there, and few if any have the means to gamble on long term benefits for writers, who are likely making significantly more money.
No BL it isn't charity. But every business carries the responsibility of being fair to EVERYONE.
FAIR: free from favoritism or self-interest or bias or deception.
Gee, how is the interest of the writers over those taking the biggest hit considered fair?
I think the word you are looking for is farce.
I'll drag you kicking and screaming to the rational side of thinking if need be.
Alex
www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
www.thegoloaffair.wordpress.com
.
If you don not have those means, then the only thing that matters is the short term, and the short term means you are out of work and out of money.
I don't celebrate Christmas, but millions do, and this Christmas is really going to suck for a lot of people that do not have the long term means.
People get behind on mortgages, car payments, utilities, and life expenses. Yea, maybe in the long term writers will benefit, but the short term screwing of the 'little people' never sits well with me. I seriously doubt they were asked if they would mind taking a big F'n hit for posterity.
Fact is a toilet cleaner doesn't even show up on radar. But they are there, and few if any have the means to gamble on long term benefits for writers, who are likely making significantly more money.
No BL it isn't charity. But every business carries the responsibility of being fair to EVERYONE.
FAIR: free from favoritism or self-interest or bias or deception.
Gee, how is the interest of the writers over those taking the biggest hit considered fair?
I think the word you are looking for is farce.
I'll drag you kicking and screaming to the rational side of thinking if need be.
Alex
www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
www.thegoloaffair.wordpress.com
.
Last edited:
Okay, so the WGA tries to negotiate amicably. It fails. Nothing changes. What next? Sign a petition? Go on Oprah? Or should they do what every labor group does?
On the second point re TITANIC. You have to write stories that people want to see on the screen. If you're not willing to do that, you probably won't get produced. Original thinking is an asset, nothing here suggests otherwise.
You should reconsider. TITANIC cleaned up at the Oscars, set box office records, and entertained the heck out of hundreds of millions of people all over the globe. This is like the Junk Food industry. Sometimes there's too much cheese, some times it's not good for you, but a Double-Double and a shake from In N Out
Burger is mighty tasty.
karapetkov
Well-known member
Everything starts with the script, IMVHO.
An it's maybe the most important part of the process.
If you don't have a script - you won't have a movie... Never!
Yes, this strike f%cks the other departments, but this is a good way for them to remember where everything starts from and what all of them depend on.
If there wasn't the "writing department", the other departments wouldn't even exist.
Cinema sprung out of literature, not viceversa.
And it still springs out of it and will always spring out of it.
No script - no film - no cash - no Christmas.
Very unfortunately, justice and freedom are things you have to fight for... constantly!... Otherwise you lose them.
Strikes are the civilized way to fight for your rights.
Strike them to the death! Otherwise they'll f%ck you to the death.
If you don't strike - you will get f%cked. Sad and true...
In the long run, I believe that all departments will benefit from this, they just have to endure it...
I'm not a communist, but i'm not a capitalist either.
Truth is in the middle and everyone should get what they deserve.
And yes - I'm a foreigner, but this is a global issue, so... everyone is affected.
An it's maybe the most important part of the process.
If you don't have a script - you won't have a movie... Never!
Yes, this strike f%cks the other departments, but this is a good way for them to remember where everything starts from and what all of them depend on.
If there wasn't the "writing department", the other departments wouldn't even exist.
Cinema sprung out of literature, not viceversa.
And it still springs out of it and will always spring out of it.
No script - no film - no cash - no Christmas.
Very unfortunately, justice and freedom are things you have to fight for... constantly!... Otherwise you lose them.
Strikes are the civilized way to fight for your rights.
Strike them to the death! Otherwise they'll f%ck you to the death.
If you don't strike - you will get f%cked. Sad and true...
In the long run, I believe that all departments will benefit from this, they just have to endure it...
I'm not a communist, but i'm not a capitalist either.
Truth is in the middle and everyone should get what they deserve.
And yes - I'm a foreigner, but this is a global issue, so... everyone is affected.
alex whitmer
Veteran
Now I'm even more depressed
Now I'm even more depressed
The world is doomed.
First the Titanic issue.
Thank you for clarifying my point. Junk food for the masses.
You are right, it sells, but so do cigarettes. And no, I'm not willing to write junk just because that is what sells. Talk about about selling out.
Junk food satisfies a craving, but never a necessity. That's nutrition 101.
Yea, a good 'ol double-double is unbeatable - from time to time. Do it every day and prepare yourself for a life of obese mediocrity.
Feed your mind junk, and you think junk.
It's like the difference between F-ing and making love. F-ing is easy. Any dog can do it. But making love takes panache, and precious few have it.
You go ahead and write your junk-food and cash your fat and greasy checks. I'll stick to Haute Cuisine, and die penniless doing so if that's what it takes to keep my convictions intact.
For every Van Gogh, there are a million Kinkades. You made your choice.
I guess some of just don't have it in us. Don't feel too bad. Short-term thinking is a common malady.
.
And now this ...
Everything starts with the script, IMVHO.
Agree in part. The story needs to come from somewhere, then it is scripted.
An it's maybe the most important part of the process.
Don’t agree. Every role, from camera operator, to actor, to burger flipper, to toilet cleaner, to director has an equal stake in seeing the screenplay morph from paper to the big screen.
If you don't have a script - you won't have a movie... Never!
Don’t agree. There is such thing as guerrilla filmmaking that often works unscripted. Success varies.
Yes, this strike f%cks the other departments, but this is a good way for them to remember where everything starts from and what all of them depend on.If there wasn't the "writing department", the other departments wouldn't even exist.
Profoundly wrong and profoundly arrogant. You can write all the scripts you want, but if there is no one to produce it, film it, act it, edit it, and clean up afterwords, then there is no film. This is 100% a collab effort. It starts with the script, but after that it depends on the rest of the disciplines to see it to fruition.
Cinema sprung out of literature, not viceversa.
Actually these days some lit is inspired by cinema.
And it still springs out of it and will always spring out of it.
Real life events inspire a lot of film. First the event, then the script, then the film.
No script - no film - no cash - no Christmas.
Or … no cash, no film, and no need for a script. Merry Christmas.
Very unfortunately, justice and freedom are things you have to fight for... constantly!... Otherwise you lose them.
Your point?
Strikes are the civilized way to fight for your rights.
They can also be brutally destructive, and that's not civilized.
Strike them to the death! Otherwise they'll f%ck you to the death.
What’s it going to take to wean the planet off third-party representation?
If you don't strike - you will get f%cked. Sad and true...
Limited outlook. Try writing for someone else if the producer in question is out to F you. There are options, but it is up to you to find them, or create them. Sitting around for Papa Union to do the dirty work is chicken-shyt.
Many unions are just glorified criminals. Why let them represent you?
Years ago I was in another industry that took me to the US on business. I was forced to hire Teamster labor for outrageous prices, and more often than not, the work/service provided was garbage. By my third year, I would just pay them to stay away.
This was in public buildings owned by the cities/people of San Francisco, Chicago, and New York. How is it the unions can, by law, force me to pay these fees? Needless to say, I no longer do biz in the US. I can't afford it, and I can't with good concsious, support these tactics.
In the long run, I believe that all departments will benefit from this, they just have to endure it...
Okay, I’ll just dig through garbage cans for food, lose my house because I can’t make the payments, have my car repossessed, and give up all earthly pleasures, including the occasional cheese burger.
I'm not a communist, but i'm not a capitalist either.
Your point?
Truth is in the middle and everyone should get what they deserve.
Strongly agree.
And yes - I'm a foreigner, but this is a global issue, so... everyone is affected.
I would jump at any chance to write for the Bulgarian film industry.
We are in the movie business, people, the most powerful meduim for exchanging ideas ever to grace the planet. Why all the petty crap, eye gouging, hair pulling, and name calling? Get your fricken pens out and write.
Okay, enough enemies for one day. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got seven scripts to write.
alex
www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
www.thegoloafair.wordpress.com
Now I'm even more depressed
The world is doomed.
First the Titanic issue.
Thank you for clarifying my point. Junk food for the masses.
You are right, it sells, but so do cigarettes. And no, I'm not willing to write junk just because that is what sells. Talk about about selling out.
Junk food satisfies a craving, but never a necessity. That's nutrition 101.
Yea, a good 'ol double-double is unbeatable - from time to time. Do it every day and prepare yourself for a life of obese mediocrity.
Feed your mind junk, and you think junk.
It's like the difference between F-ing and making love. F-ing is easy. Any dog can do it. But making love takes panache, and precious few have it.
You go ahead and write your junk-food and cash your fat and greasy checks. I'll stick to Haute Cuisine, and die penniless doing so if that's what it takes to keep my convictions intact.
For every Van Gogh, there are a million Kinkades. You made your choice.
I guess some of just don't have it in us. Don't feel too bad. Short-term thinking is a common malady.
.
And now this ...
Everything starts with the script, IMVHO.
Agree in part. The story needs to come from somewhere, then it is scripted.
An it's maybe the most important part of the process.
Don’t agree. Every role, from camera operator, to actor, to burger flipper, to toilet cleaner, to director has an equal stake in seeing the screenplay morph from paper to the big screen.
If you don't have a script - you won't have a movie... Never!
Don’t agree. There is such thing as guerrilla filmmaking that often works unscripted. Success varies.
Yes, this strike f%cks the other departments, but this is a good way for them to remember where everything starts from and what all of them depend on.If there wasn't the "writing department", the other departments wouldn't even exist.
Profoundly wrong and profoundly arrogant. You can write all the scripts you want, but if there is no one to produce it, film it, act it, edit it, and clean up afterwords, then there is no film. This is 100% a collab effort. It starts with the script, but after that it depends on the rest of the disciplines to see it to fruition.
Cinema sprung out of literature, not viceversa.
Actually these days some lit is inspired by cinema.
And it still springs out of it and will always spring out of it.
Real life events inspire a lot of film. First the event, then the script, then the film.
No script - no film - no cash - no Christmas.
Or … no cash, no film, and no need for a script. Merry Christmas.
Very unfortunately, justice and freedom are things you have to fight for... constantly!... Otherwise you lose them.
Your point?
Strikes are the civilized way to fight for your rights.
They can also be brutally destructive, and that's not civilized.
Strike them to the death! Otherwise they'll f%ck you to the death.
What’s it going to take to wean the planet off third-party representation?
If you don't strike - you will get f%cked. Sad and true...
Limited outlook. Try writing for someone else if the producer in question is out to F you. There are options, but it is up to you to find them, or create them. Sitting around for Papa Union to do the dirty work is chicken-shyt.
Many unions are just glorified criminals. Why let them represent you?
Years ago I was in another industry that took me to the US on business. I was forced to hire Teamster labor for outrageous prices, and more often than not, the work/service provided was garbage. By my third year, I would just pay them to stay away.
This was in public buildings owned by the cities/people of San Francisco, Chicago, and New York. How is it the unions can, by law, force me to pay these fees? Needless to say, I no longer do biz in the US. I can't afford it, and I can't with good concsious, support these tactics.
In the long run, I believe that all departments will benefit from this, they just have to endure it...
Okay, I’ll just dig through garbage cans for food, lose my house because I can’t make the payments, have my car repossessed, and give up all earthly pleasures, including the occasional cheese burger.
I'm not a communist, but i'm not a capitalist either.
Your point?
Truth is in the middle and everyone should get what they deserve.
Strongly agree.
And yes - I'm a foreigner, but this is a global issue, so... everyone is affected.
I would jump at any chance to write for the Bulgarian film industry.
We are in the movie business, people, the most powerful meduim for exchanging ideas ever to grace the planet. Why all the petty crap, eye gouging, hair pulling, and name calling? Get your fricken pens out and write.
Okay, enough enemies for one day. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got seven scripts to write.
alex
www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
www.thegoloafair.wordpress.com
Last edited:
karapetkov
Well-known member
What I meant was that when people say that the "movie sucks", most of the time they refer to its story [script]. You can have the greatest Director\DP\Actors\Sound, etc., but if the script doesn't work in the first place, nothing will work,.. ever!
I'm not referring to the text or the physical act of writing or typing. Don't tell me that these guerrillas went out and started shooting just like that - without a story outline, without a main idea, without a basic story structure in their heads, without ideas for characters, scenes, twists. I don't believe it.
They must have had the script in their heads, they must have had the story mechanism straight [even only at a subconscious level]. Chaos brings nothing but chaos.
OK, i went a bit off the edge there, sorry. I'm mainly referring to arrogant directors and\or actors who take the script and its author for granted and forget all about it when the movie becomes successful.
I didn't mean that the other departments are unimportant, but they sometimes forget the writers and consider them unimportant. That's what annoys me.
Without a good story, full of interesting characters and well-structured ideas it's simply pointless to film anything at all. It's cross-related.
When a Jay Leno-type of TV guy delivers a series of funny lines, a lot of people think "Oh, this guy Jay Leno is so smart".
When an actor delivers a brilliant line, most of the people think "He's a brilliant actor". Noone thinks about the brilliant writer that invented the line\scene\script in the first place.
The "popular guys" are mostly the actors and the director, while the writers stay in the [financial] shadow. And the "popular guys" know that and it makes them [financially] arrogant and they forget that their greatness is built on the writer's efforts too.
So if my comment is arrogant, OK, but I believe it's more like counter-arrogant, a response to the initial arrogance of the "popular" guys.
The same goes with music - when Elvis sings a great song, noone thinks of the brilliant nameless guy, whose heart actually gave birth to that music. I'm not saying that Elvis's contribution is unimportant, but the nameless guy's contribution is as important as Elvis's.
If you don't have a good song, it doesn't matter how good a singer you are.
If you don't have a good script, it doesn't matter how good a director or actor you are, unless you're a writer\director or writer\actor [who is actually writing good scripts
] .The same applies to a lot of other departments too - when the movie is well shot, people think "Oh, this director is very good", and what about the DP?
And what about the "invisible art" of the editor, is the editor of "Fight Club" paid as much as Brad Pitt? If No, WHY?!
What about the Production Design, what about costumes, what about the score.
OK, Brad Pitt is a good actor and he's cute. But the editor can be as good in his craft as Brad Pitt is in acting? Why is the actor paid 20 mln., and the editor... what - 1 mln.? Or maybe acting and cuteness is more important than editing skills? And who's arrogant now?
An one more thing - the editor can be cute too
.Agreed.
Merry Christmas :engel017:.
If every department doesn't strike for its rights, things tend to get worse. I didn't mean that the other departments are "the enemy". "The enemy" is the greed of rich men and their desire to suck you dry, if you let them.
I'm not referring to those, there should be good causes and arguments for a strike. I don't mean "Strike just to keep striking"...
.... OK, "good causes" sounds abstract.
You have a point and this is complicated, so - I don't have an answer...
It makes me remember the scene from "Traffic" when the drug dealer is explaining to the policemen that by putting him out they're practically working for the competing cartel.
"Don't forget that you work for a drug-dealer too".
Sad... I don't have an answer.
Again, I don't have an answer... I can't say you're wrong...
My point is in the next quote:
-----------------
In the moment, there is no Bulgarian film industry... :crybaby:.
Nothing but a bunch of wackos, spending too much time on foreign forums...
So,.. don't bother
.-------------------
P.S. Whoa, sorry for the gigantic post!
alex whitmer
Veteran
I like you Brian. I really do. You stand by your beleifes, and that is honorable.
But, show me where I said any of the above.
alex
www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
alex whitmer
Veteran
An it's maybe the most important part of the process.
Don’t agree. Every role, from camera operator, to actor, to burger flipper, to toilet cleaner, to director has an equal stake in seeing the screenplay morph from paper to the big screen.
``What I meant was that when people say that the "movie sucks", most of the time they refer to its story [script]. You can have the greatest Director\DP\Actors\Sound, etc., but if the script doesn't work in the first place, nothing will work,.. ever!``
A good director/crew can salvage a bad script. A bad director/crew can ruin a good one.
If you don't have a script - you won't have a movie... Never!
Don’t agree. There is such thing as guerrilla filmmaking that often works unscripted. Success varies.
''I'm not referring to the text or the physical act of writing or typing. Don't tell me that these guerrillas went out and started shooting just like that - without a story outline, without a main idea, without a basic story structure in their heads, without ideas for characters, scenes, twists. I don't believe it.''
They must have had the script in their heads, they must have had the story mechanism straight [even only at a subconscious level]. Chaos brings nothing but chaos.
Actually chaos theories are pretty interesting. Okay, I thought you meant a physical screenplay.
Yes, this strike f%cks the other departments, but this is a good way for them to remember where everything starts from and what all of them depend on.If there wasn't the "writing department", the other departments wouldn't even exist.
Profoundly wrong and profoundly arrogant. You can write all the scripts you want, but if there is no one to produce it, film it, act it, edit it, and clean up afterwords, then there is no film. This is 100% a collab effort. It starts with the script, but after that it depends on the rest of the disciplines to see it to fruition.
''OK, i went a bit off the edge there, sorry. I'm mainly referring to arrogant directors and\or actors who take the script and its author for granted and forget all about it when the movie becomes successful.''
Here I agree. Writers are such an important piece of the whole, but often are overlooked, underpaid, ripped off, maginalized, heckled, etc. Other than that it's a pretty nice profession.
I didn't mean that the other departments are unimportant, but they sometimes forget the writers and consider them unimportant. That's what annoys me.
Agree!
Without a good story, full of interesting characters and well-structured ideas it's simply pointless to film anything at all. It's cross-related.
When a Jay Leno-type of TV guy delivers a series of funny lines, a lot of people think "Oh, this guy Jay Leno is so smart".
When an actor delivers a brilliant line, most of the people think "He's a brilliant actor". Noone thinks about the brilliant writer that invented the line\scene\script in the first place.
The "popular guys" are mostly the actors and the director, while the writers stay in the [financial] shadow. And the "popular guys" know that and it makes them [financially] arrogant and they forget that their greatness is built on the writer's efforts too.
The most visible usually get the glory. Not always, just usually.
So if my comment is arrogant, OK, but I believe it's more like counter-arrogant, a response to the initial arrogance of the "popular" guys.
The same goes with music - when Elvis sings a great song, noone thinks of the brilliant nameless guy, whose heart actually gave birth to that music. I'm not saying that Elvis's contribution is unimportant, but the nameless guy's contribution is as important as Elvis's.
As writers we accept a background role. Yea, the mass public usually pays no attention to who actually wrote lyrics, poems, screenplays, etc, and only really care who delivers them. They want to be entertained, not educated.
If you don't have a good song, it doesn't matter how good a singer you are.
If you don't have a good script, it doesn't matter how good a director or actor you are, unless you're a writer\director or writer\actor [who is actually writing good scripts
] .See above.
The same applies to a lot of other departments too - when the movie is well shot, people think "Oh, this director is very good", and what about the DP?
And what about the "invisible art" of the editor, is the editor of "Fight Club" paid as much as Brad Pitt? If No, WHY?!
What about the Production Design, what about costumes, what about the score.
OK, Brad Pitt is a good actor and he's cute. But the editor can be as good in his craft as Brad Pitt is in acting? Why is the actor paid 20 mln., and the editor... what - 1 mln.? Or maybe acting and cuteness is more important than editing skills? And who's arrogant now?
An one more thing - the editor can be cute too
.We all choose which part we want to play in filmmaking. If you want the glory, be a great actor. The Oscars, Golden Globes, and other awards do recognize background accomplishments.
And it still springs out of it and will always spring out of it.
Real life events inspire a lot of film. First the event, then the script, then the film.
Agreed.
No script - no film - no cash - no Christmas.
Or … no cash, no film, and no need for a script. Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas :engel017:.
Very unfortunately, justice and freedom are things you have to fight for... constantly!... Otherwise you lose them.
Your point?
''If every department doesn't strike for its rights, things tend to get worse. I didn't mean that the other departments are "the enemy". "The enemy" is the greed of rich men and their desire to suck you dry, if you let them.''
Since the beginning of time, and it will likely never change. I just don't want a third party of questionable ethics fighting my battles.
Strikes are the civilized way to fight for your rights.
They can also be brutally destructive, and that's not civilized.
''I'm not referring to those, there should be good causes and arguments for a strike. I don't mean "Strike just to keep striking"...''
Early on unions had real purpose. The last time I can think when I really supported a union was in Poland's solidarity movement. Now it's just big business. Some are honorable, others not.
.... OK, "good causes" sounds abstract.
Strike them to the death! Otherwise they'll f%ck you to the death.
What’s it going to take to wean the planet off third-party representation?
If you don't strike - you will get f%cked. Sad and true...
Limited outlook. Try writing for someone else if the producer in question is out to F you. There are options, but it is up to you to find them, or create them. Sitting around for Papa Union to do the dirty work is chicken-shyt.
Many (most) unions are just glorified criminals. Why let them represent you?
''You have a point and this is complicated, so - I don't have an answer...
It makes me remember the scene from "Traffic" when the drug dealer is explaining to the policemen that by putting him out they're practically working for the competing cartel.
"Don't forget that you work for a drug-dealer too".
Sad... I don't have an answer.''
Nor I. It's a gamble. I choose to fight for my self on my own terms. That carries advantages and disadvantges, all of which I accept.
In the long run, I believe that all departments will benefit from this, they just have to endure it...
Okay, I’ll just dig through garbage cans for food, lose my house because I can’t make the payments, have my car repossessed, and give up all earthly pleasures, including the occasional cheese burger while the cry babies duke it out.
''Again, I don't have an answer... I can't say you're wrong...''
This is my one and only issue with strikes. It can really hurt some of the peripheral players, and I will not contribute to it. I know its not perfect. Nothing is. But when the facts are so crystal clear as to just how damaging it can be, who can participate with a clear conscious?
I'm not a communist, but i'm not a capitalist either.
Your point?
''My point is in the next quote:''
Truth is in the middle and everyone should get what they deserve.
Strongly agree.
-----------------
And yes - I'm a foreigner, but this is a global issue, so... everyone is affected.
I would jump at any chance to write for the Bulgarian film industry.
''In the moment, there is no Bulgarian film industry... :crybaby:.
Nothing but a bunch of wackos, spending too much time on foreign forums...
So,.. don't bother
.''Sad, I'd love to get into the mindset and language just to see where it went. We can always collab on something. Game?
Last edited:
karapetkov
Well-known member
There are talented people here [of course, I don't refer to myself], but no working system, currently.
And ...
Game
.Neither the short nor the long-term effects of a strike are problem-free. The bulk of the writers' membership feel for the lack of work, too, and they are the people who cast the vote to strike.
A condition of doing production-support work, is that production occasionally and for different reasons slackens and even dries up. Writers and actors commonly maintain other paying gigs, to supplement their writing-acting income. Most crew types I know, do the same.
I don't really see that any degree of Christmas disappointment is cause for the writers to sacrifice a prospective share in something to which I think they have a reasonable claim.
This is all true. And it's bad. But it doesn't define a responsibility on the writers' part, to accept any deal, no matter how disadvantageous, for the sake of maintaining the flow of work for others.
One of the side effects of the impending strike, while it was impending, was a hugely increased volume of development and production work in feature and tv content, for about a year to eighteen months. That was a good stretch of good-paying gigs for a lot of people, and with warning that a strike might come, people had a heads-up to squirrel some $$$ away, where and as they could.
People who weren't working, during that period...well, if you weren't working during a crazy-busy all-hands-on-deck sort of patch, then your work status will not actually be changed by a strike-induced hiatus, anyway.
The writers' deal will serve as the basis of the IA's deal. Look, once upon a time the IA was sufficiently powerful that its negotiators could expect to threaten (or call) a strike as leverage to gain something like points on internet streaming, etcetera. Those days are past, and if the IA 'little people' hope to fund things like a health plan or retirement fund or training programs or safety instruction, then they'll have to get a foot in the door via the writers' (or actors') negotiations. Successful negotiations will benefit everybody, and a WGA cave would harm everybody, for whom you say you're concerned.
I'm sorry, the phrase 'little people' is irritating, whether there are quotes around it, or not.
Well, representatives of both my local and my guild met with WGA representatives, but it's true that the memberships of the various locals were not consulted as to whether or not we wanted the writers to strike. And there is no reason the IA membership would be consulted, any more than we would consult the WGA for permission to strike, should we find no substitute remedy for something we felt we needed to change.
Writers aren't obliged to accept a short deal in order to try and ensure work for toilet-cleaners, any more than they're obliged to let themselves be screwed for the sake of art directors' or grips' short-term employment. And I doubt that the number of toilet-cleaners affected by the strike is very large, anyway. Since they are mostly employed by staffing services, they'll just be reassigned elsewhere. Unlike writers and art directors and grips, a toilet-cleaner's job is portable and in virtually universal demand.
"We'll take a sh*tty deal - and by extension, we'll accept a sh*tty deal on your behalf, too - so that your access to work for the next year or so is more secure."
That's not fair. That's altruistic, and foolishly so. Altruism is good, but it's unreasonable to expect self-destructive altruism from people with a legitimate claim to what they're striking for.
Unions and guilds are all about bias in favor of the work force, and are about protecting the professional self-interest of the members. And they are absolutely necessary because collective bargaining is the only defense against the rapacity of the studios and producers.
"Fair" is defined by the rules of whatever game, negotiation or fight, you're talking about. And within the rules of the guild and union establishment, any guild deciding via a vote of its membership to strike, is absolutely fair to the other guilds, in so doing.
You appear to have some kind of socialist-paradise everybody-is-principally-concerned-with-the-welfare-of-everybody-else model, of how an industry should operate. If you feel that this is how things ought to work, that's your call. But it's not relevant to how it does work, which is based in relative advantage and posturing for stakes that affect the 'little people' to whom you refer, for better and worse, as well as they affect the principal parties involved.
You'll find me there. I'll have coffee waiting.
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DeSica
Well-known member
Most American stuff is crap...and yes, Americans don't pay to see foreign stuff as much as they should. Xenophobia?
I do support the strike, and I'd like to see writers everyhwere, union or not, treated fairly...but that doesn't mean quality and talent cannot be found outside the continent.
Just last night I watched L'Adversaire, which was based on a book about the true story of a French man who murders his parents, kids, and wife after having posed as a doctor working for the WHO for 18 years. Daniel Auteuil once again showed he is one of the best actors on the planet, and the film was better than most anything I have seen in the last few years.
I'd rather watch subtitled gold than English speaking junk. Are you saying Americans are the other way around?
Then again, look at something like LOTR...with a director and writers from New Zealand, actors from England, UK source material, and New Zealand filming locations, is that an American trilogoy of movies?
Did the market lie there?
I am increasingly certain that it's because Americans are poor readers. The near-universal cause behind aversion to foreign films, seems to be not wanting to read subtitles.
This doesn't explain an aversion to dubbed-into-English films, but dubbing frequently degrades the experience and some people might be skipping dubbed films, regardless of the language.
alex whitmer
Veteran
All great points Sad, and well thought out. I'm softing my postion on some things, others not.
I know there is little hope that human kind will just sort of magically be kind to each other, and pay a fair price for all work performed.
Maybe I should drag myself to the side of rational thinking!
I take cream with my coffee.
A
I know there is little hope that human kind will just sort of magically be kind to each other, and pay a fair price for all work performed.
Maybe I should drag myself to the side of rational thinking!
I take cream with my coffee.
A
Whittmer:
My view on the strike differs from yours in one fundamental aspect. You assume that the writers are the cause of the strike, while I see the producers as the cause of the strike.
The marketplace is changing, and the producers refuse to acknowledge that. If the writers didn't demand these new revisions to the contract, in 5 years time (when all content has moved to streaming and the internet) they would be receiving nothing in residuals.
If somebody offers you a bad deal, you do not accept it. The writers are striking over the exact same issues that the Directors and Actors will be striking over. It is an important issue. The producers would like people to believe that the box office is still where most of the money on features is made.
It has not been like that for several years. In fact, Hollywood has been shortening box office runs in favor of getting the DVDs out sooner, where they know that they will make more money. Yet they do not want to pay the writers what they promised them long ago.
Syndication is where most TV writers make their money, and it is all moving to the internet, where the producers seem to think they are justified in paying the writers $250 a year. That's just plain ridiculous.
My view on the strike differs from yours in one fundamental aspect. You assume that the writers are the cause of the strike, while I see the producers as the cause of the strike.
The marketplace is changing, and the producers refuse to acknowledge that. If the writers didn't demand these new revisions to the contract, in 5 years time (when all content has moved to streaming and the internet) they would be receiving nothing in residuals.
If somebody offers you a bad deal, you do not accept it. The writers are striking over the exact same issues that the Directors and Actors will be striking over. It is an important issue. The producers would like people to believe that the box office is still where most of the money on features is made.
It has not been like that for several years. In fact, Hollywood has been shortening box office runs in favor of getting the DVDs out sooner, where they know that they will make more money. Yet they do not want to pay the writers what they promised them long ago.
Syndication is where most TV writers make their money, and it is all moving to the internet, where the producers seem to think they are justified in paying the writers $250 a year. That's just plain ridiculous.
alex whitmer
Veteran
Point taken Ag.
I know the problem starts at the top with an intent to short-change the writer of their just rewards. There's no argument there.
I just don't like the way it unravels.
Profit is fine. It's what we do business for in the first place. Hopefully we find something we really like and we're good at, and make a nice profit in the process.
Sadly big business is run only on profit and making shareholders happy. Paying writers what they are due is bad for the margins, and a less than spectacular margin won't attract new investors. So, they empty the pockets of those who created the product. I smell festering karma.
Yea, the business is changing, but unfortunatley the cycle never does. We'll fix this problem today, only to have some shmuck figure out how to fill his or her own pockets from the sweat of others on the changes fought for, and we'll start all over again.
Never trust a human whose only goal in life it to wrap their genitalia in the finest of silks. I mean that's what it's all about, right.
Okay, until a better and more humane way comes along, I guess this is the best we can do. Disapointing, but historically on par.
alex
www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
I know the problem starts at the top with an intent to short-change the writer of their just rewards. There's no argument there.
I just don't like the way it unravels.
Profit is fine. It's what we do business for in the first place. Hopefully we find something we really like and we're good at, and make a nice profit in the process.
Sadly big business is run only on profit and making shareholders happy. Paying writers what they are due is bad for the margins, and a less than spectacular margin won't attract new investors. So, they empty the pockets of those who created the product. I smell festering karma.
Yea, the business is changing, but unfortunatley the cycle never does. We'll fix this problem today, only to have some shmuck figure out how to fill his or her own pockets from the sweat of others on the changes fought for, and we'll start all over again.
Never trust a human whose only goal in life it to wrap their genitalia in the finest of silks. I mean that's what it's all about, right.
Okay, until a better and more humane way comes along, I guess this is the best we can do. Disapointing, but historically on par.
alex
www.alexwhitmer.wordpress.com
www.guerro.wordpress.com
I think they definitely don't like reading subtitles, but who does? I'd hate trying to watch a comedy via subtitles, every joke has to be explained and by the time you've read the line, the joke's happened, and you're just now figuring out what it meant. Subtitles are issues for me with other movies as well, but comedy's a really strong example.
Then you also have the US' monopoly on American media, so foreign films simply won't get heard about. And media aren't going to report on too many foreign films, just enough so that the occasional comes through so Americans and see it and feel cultured.
Also, Americans are entirely self-obsessed and want to see movies about Americans. If you had directors in other countries hiring American actors to do their movies in English the first time, that would probably help. But they have to make sure the writing is all done right and the actors are top notch.
Really, I think that as long as Americans are the biggest consumers of movies, and continue to want American movies, then foreign movies will never take over the market. But as markets and economies in other countries grow, like China and India, then their consumers will start focusing more on their own films and start making serious inroads in to the US.
That's what I was saying earlier in this thread, top foreign talent ends up in Hollywood. LOTR is a Hollywood production. Who do you think bankrolled it? France?
Blaine
Mr. Hollywood
The Spaghetti Westerns made great use of this, as well as really bad dubbing
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)