Storyboard it all?

Personally, I've only done shot lists unless it's a complicated action sequence. I find a shot list allows me to be flexible with the moment. If I have a drawing I'm too concerned with recreating it and not finding the spontaneous reality. It can turn out stiff and stilted. I find I have more fun if I keep things loose and come up with it on the spot. Granted, I have many, many years of editing experience, so I have a keen sense of the coverage I need to make a scene play. If you don't have that than storyboarding may be a way to go. Another option, and one my wife uses and likes, is to do an overhead diagram of your set and then map out the blocking and camera placements.
 
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If you want to succeed on the film, you should storyboard everything so you can see it play out in your head, on the paper, and show and explain it to others. Secondly, storyboards are how you can quickly communicate with every other department head on the set. Give everyone a set of boards, and they know what they're working on that day, what to have ready, etc. Keep it all in your head, on the other hand, and you'll have to go through the process of explaining to each and every one of them, as well as lose the shoot time during the day while you do that. If they've got boards, and they know what's up next on the shot list, they can get it all ready beforehand.
 
PerroneFord said:
I wouldn't work on a feature without a storyboard. Period. Heck I am pre-shooting my 2 minute promo!
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Steven Spielberg shot the opening 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan without a storyboard...Granted we all aren't Steven Spielberg but...I've done it both ways, and much preferred the result just using a shot list. It had more life to it. I am fully capable of seeing the movie in my head, rather vividly, but find just recreating that to be kind of boring. I like discovering things on set. If I have a storyboard to adhere to I might miss new, more interesting angles because I'm not being forced to look for them. If that's a little more hassle for the crew to deal with than so be it. Directing isn't about making things easy, just making them good. You may want to storyboard your first few projects, but once you get a feel for coverage and what you need to make a scene play I wouldn't say it's mandatory.
 
Batutta said:
Steven Spielberg shot the opening 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan without a storyboard...Granted we all aren't Steven Spielberg but...I've done it both ways, and much preferred the result just using a shot list. It had more life to it. I am fully capable of seeing the movie in my head, rather vividly, but find just recreating that to be kind of boring. I like discovering things on set. If I have a storyboard to adhere to I might miss new, more interesting angles because I'm not being forced to look for them. If that's a little more hassle for the crew to deal with than so be it. Directing isn't about making things easy, just making them good. You may want to storyboard your first few projects, but once you get a feel for coverage and what you need to make a scene play I wouldn't say it's mandatory.
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There i a whole lot of "I" in this statement. How many were in your crew and cast? I just finished a short (As first A.D. and gaffer) with a crew of about 12 and a cast of about the same. Without the boards it would have been chaos every day. Shot list or not. I gave lighting plans to the folks that needed them, got exposure info to and from the DP, and had a decent understanding of how the shots were going to be laid out.

Yes, an overhead can give you an idea of how to construct the set and block. But it cannot tell you how the scene is supposed to LOOK and that is absolutely critical if you want your movie lit well, if you want your audio guy in the right place at the right time, if you want your set's dressed properly, etc. How the heck is the art director supposed to look at an overhead and know what to do?

If it's just you covering all bases on your own movie that's one thing. But this falls down quickly as you have to get more and more people on the same page.
 
One useful thing about boards is what you can derive from them: your setups. If you use a 3D tool like Sketchup etc for previsualization, you'll have fairly exact camera placements, focal lengths and - if you go that far - your basic lighting setups worked out, before walking onto set.
 
PerroneFord said:
There i a whole lot of "I" in this statement. How many were in your crew and cast? I just finished a short (As first A.D. and gaffer) with a crew of about 12 and a cast of about the same. Without the boards it would have been chaos every day. Shot list or not. I gave lighting plans to the folks that needed them, got exposure info to and from the DP, and had a decent understanding of how the shots were going to be laid out.

Yes, an overhead can give you an idea of how to construct the set and block. But it cannot tell you how the scene is supposed to LOOK and that is absolutely critical if you want your movie lit well, if you want your audio guy in the right place at the right time, if you want your set's dressed properly, etc. How the heck is the art director supposed to look at an overhead and know what to do?

If it's just you covering all bases on your own movie that's one thing. But this falls down quickly as you have to get more and more people on the same page.
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I've done a few shorts with a crew of about 15, where I only used a shot list, and yes, some I shot all by myself. You just communicate with people and tell them what you want. It's not like I go in with no plan at all, just as little as I can get away with for the budget and time I have. You give people a general idea of where you are headed and they prepare accordingly. No, the set will not run like a swiss watch, but it's also more open to collaboration and happy accidents. You seem to think your way is the right way, but it's not, it's right FOR YOU. Obviously if your project is heavy with action and special effects, you will need pre-viz and boards. But if it's just people talking, I feel it stifles the actors and the reality of the scene. That is my experience. It may not be yours.
 
I'm "trying" to storyboard my script. The biggest issue is.. my "visions" of how it should look are extremely detailed and beyond my scope of drawing sometimes. And some of the things I see are beyond what I can put in a few rectangle boxes. Thats where my issues lies..

here's one I did for an example.. Also I would note my film crew consists of the director who is doubling as cinematographer, audio technician/boom op, lighting tech, 1-2 PA's who will just handle whatever odds and ends that need doing, 2 hair/makeup people, and a special effects group.

storyboard1.jpg
 
Batutta said:
I've done a few shorts with a crew of about 15, where I only used a shot list, and yes, some I shot all by myself. You just communicate with people and tell them what you want. It's not like I go in with no plan at all, just as little as I can get away with for the budget and time I have. You give people a general idea of where you are headed and they prepare accordingly. No, the set will not run like a swiss watch, but it's also more open to collaboration and happy accidents. You seem to think your way is the right way, but it's not, it's right FOR YOU. Obviously if your project is heavy with action and special effects, you will need pre-viz and boards. But if it's just people talking, I feel it stifles the actors and the reality of the scene. That is my experience. It may not be yours.
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You misunderstand. I don't think my way is any more right than your way. I am merely giving my view.

I am very pleased to have happy accidents happen on set. We got lucky with a number of them on this past shoot. Maybe I'll post a still of one of them. Some things don't lend themselves to boarding. Like documentaries. Or when you don't know your locations. You just do what you can.

And frankly, I like things to run like a Swiss watch. Can't always be that way, but I'd like to try if I can. The thing is, when the setup is in chaos, the actors can't settle in and give the performance they should. When the actors walk in, and the set is ready, camera is prepared, scene is dressed, and the DP is just doing final light checks against their skin, it makes for a very nice environment. And the actors can spend more time inhabiting the role.

When you've got 40 minutes of daylight, and you're trying to figure out where the table and plant should be, things get a bit more hectic! And yes, I've been there!
 
You draw better than I do...

So since I cannot draw, I tend to take photos. Grab a bunch of people who will be in your crew, and some friends, and take photos. Take photos at the locations. Use those to help solidify your ideas. Nothing wrong with these drawings to get some idea of how things should look... You can tell fundamental angle, lens length, framing, blocking, etc. Can't tell anything about lighting so work carefully with whoever is going to light your scenes.
 
PerroneFord said:
You misunderstand. I don't think my way is any more right than your way. I am merely giving my view.

I am very pleased to have happy accidents happen on set. We got lucky with a number of them on this past shoot. Maybe I'll post a still of one of them. Some things don't lend themselves to boarding. Like documentaries. Or when you don't know your locations. You just do what you can.

And frankly, I like things to run like a Swiss watch. Can't always be that way, but I'd like to try if I can. The thing is, when the setup is in chaos, the actors can't settle in and give the performance they should. When the actors walk in, and the set is ready, camera is prepared, scene is dressed, and the DP is just doing final light checks against their skin, it makes for a very nice environment. And the actors can spend more time inhabiting the role.

When you've got 40 minutes of daylight, and you're trying to figure out where the table and plant should be, things get a bit more hectic! And yes, I've been there!
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For me a lot of this is psychological as well. Filmmaking is such a long, deliberate process that to merely be recreating some pre-ordained series of drawings for months on end would get tedious. I makes me feel like I've seen the movie already so why bother making it. I like to go into it now with as few preconceptions as possible so I'm constantly discovering new stuff along the way, with the actors, with the lighting, with the editing and music. But that's me. Also, I've never directed something I didn't write, which is where I put most of the structure. I sort of see it shot for shot while I'm wriitng. If I was directing someone else's writing I might feel the urge to board more to get a handle on how it should look.
 
PerroneFord said:
You draw better than I do...

So since I cannot draw, I tend to take photos. Grab a bunch of people who will be in your crew, and some friends, and take photos. Take photos at the locations. Use those to help solidify your ideas. Nothing wrong with these drawings to get some idea of how things should look... You can tell fundamental angle, lens length, framing, blocking, etc. Can't tell anything about lighting so work carefully with whoever is going to light your scenes.
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thanks for the tips. I "can" draw.. these are just doodles for speed. My question is, are these "good enough" or do I need to get more detailed with it? What are they missing that I should include?
 
Azmyth said:
What are they missing that I should include?
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What they are missing is...

1. Shading. Give some shape to the characters to indicate how much is in shadow and how much is not.

2. Use arrows to indicate camera movement. Are all the shots static or are we panning, or pushing in, or pulling out.

3. Elevation. Are all the shots taken at shoulder height, or do we change camera height during the scene.

4. If the camera is going to move, then indicate the starting frame with arrows, and give us an frame that shows the end of the move.
 
PerroneFord said:
What they are missing is...

1. Shading. Give some shape to the characters to indicate how much is in shadow and how much is not.

2. Use arrows to indicate camera movement. Are all the shots static or are we panning, or pushing in, or pulling out.

3. Elevation. Are all the shots taken at shoulder height, or do we change camera height during the scene.

4. If the camera is going to move, then indicate the starting frame with arrows, and give us an frame that shows the end of the move.
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Ok, so here's where I am getting confused. I'm not directing the film per say. I came up with the idea, wrote the script, and did pretty much everything else as far as the production is concerned.. including finding crew members, securing locations, etc. I've got a member of the crew who has directing experience who will be doing most of the directing, with me as just more or less the final "say" in what becomes the final product. I'm more the producer than director at this point. Would I still be the one determining angles and camera movement?
 
Azmyth said:
Ok, so here's where I am getting confused. I'm not directing the film per say. I came up with the idea, wrote the script, and did pretty much everything else as far as the production is concerned.. including finding crew members, securing locations, etc. I've got a member of the crew who has directing experience who will be doing most of the directing, with me as just more or less the final "say" in what becomes the final product. I'm more the producer than director at this point. Would I still be the one determining angles and camera movement?
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I wouldn't do the storyboards unless the director wants and asks you to do it.
 
Azmyth said:
I'm more the producer than director at this point. Would I still be the one determining angles and camera movement?
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Nope. As producer, your job is to:

1. Find a director who shares your vision.
2. Work with the director to get a DP who can realize that vision
3. Get the heck out of the way and let them bring the vision to life.
 
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