FS7: Storage and Archiving and Workflow

V

Vintegreo

Well-known member
I know that this forum is about cameras, but thought it would be interesting to start a thread about storage and archiving amongst people with similar issues.

In what I like to jokingly refer to as "the good old days" we'd go out, shoot up a box of betacam sp tapes and put them on the shelf once we were done with that project. My next format was DVCAM which worked the same way. Then I moved on to XDCAM discs which were also the same way; I sure as heck wasn't going to go with P2 because I didn't know how I'd archive my priceless footage.

But, all that said, here I am regularly shooting with the FS7 or some other card media based camera.

I still break out in a cold sweat when I use Hedge for Mac to dump my cards off to multiple hard drives, and eventually I move on to my edit system's raid-5 hard drive as well as at least one other hard drive. I guess it's not so much the dumping of the footage that makes me break into a cold sweat, it's that part where you reformat the card so you can use it again!

I feel like I need a more reliable workflow, because it sure doesn't make me feel all that comfortable. If Billy the Burglar stops by or I get a flood or a fire all of my stuff is toast. I'm thinking that maybe I'll at least start keeping all of my footage on my dropbox account. I've also toyed with backing it up to DLT tape.

So many choices and all of them seem a bit wrong on some level.

Also, financially, I'm just an independent shooter/producer and don't have truckloads of cash to throw at a solution, so I'll put that parameter around this as well. I don't really care how CNN is doing it or how Warner Brothers is doing it, I'd like to know how you're doing it if you're a small shop. I'd also like to know if you've got a regimented workflow you follow to protect your precious assets.

Thanks for your input in advance!
 
First are they your precious assets? Aka have a client contract where you are not liable for data storage so your loss is not your loss

Being a simple chap I write stuff to two drives and keep one at home

I got Ar request for 2009 footage the other day - I was pleasantly suprised that the drive was all good
 
Vintegreo said:
I know that this forum is about cameras, but thought it would be interesting to start a thread about storage and archiving amongst people with similar issues.

In what I like to jokingly refer to as "the good old days" we'd go out, shoot up a box of betacam sp tapes and put them on the shelf once we were done with that project. My next format was DVCAM which worked the same way. Then I moved on to XDCAM discs which were also the same way; I sure as heck wasn't going to go with P2 because I didn't know how I'd archive my priceless footage.

But, all that said, here I am regularly shooting with the FS7 or some other card media based camera.

I still break out in a cold sweat when I use Hedge for Mac to dump my cards off to multiple hard drives, and eventually I move on to my edit system's raid-5 hard drive as well as at least one other hard drive. I guess it's not so much the dumping of the footage that makes me break into a cold sweat, it's that part where you reformat the card so you can use it again!

I feel like I need a more reliable workflow, because it sure doesn't make me feel all that comfortable. If Billy the Burglar stops by or I get a flood or a fire all of my stuff is toast. I'm thinking that maybe I'll at least start keeping all of my footage on my dropbox account. I've also toyed with backing it up to DLT tape.

So many choices and all of them seem a bit wrong on some level.

Also, financially, I'm just an independent shooter/producer and don't have truckloads of cash to throw at a solution, so I'll put that parameter around this as well. I don't really care how CNN is doing it or how Warner Brothers is doing it, I'd like to know how you're doing it if you're a small shop. I'd also like to know if you've got a regimented workflow you follow to protect your precious assets.

Thanks for your input in advance!
Click to expand...

The type of work you do will affect your archive strategy. If you are a DP,
who shoots and hands over footage to others at the end of the shoot, you
probably only need a short term archive. If you are a 'one man video company'
who shoots, and then does all post as well, you probably need a different strategy.
Personally, I do about 15% as a DP who hands over work to an agency or network
to edit. About 85% of my work is as a 'one man production company'. I have clients
who come back to me for video work, so keeping a copy of anything I have shot for them
in the past, can help greatly on future projects. In my case, I originally used external
hard drives....back up the video to two of them. However, in just the past two years
I have had 3 external drives fail.....one was about 5 days after I bought it brand new.
Bottom line is, I don't trust them for long term archive although I know some people
do. My strategy is....one copy on my work RAID on my edit machine. One copy
on two separate external drives while I am working on the project. After the client
signs off on the completed project, I archive the video as data files to Blu Ray discs.
They are like 25 or 50 gig hard drives (depending on the size you buy.)
After that, I can wipe the hard drives in preparation for my next projects. I buy
ink jet printable Blu Rays for about $1 each off Amazon and print on the face of each
disc with the contents (any TV news photographer probably remembers making out the
sheet with timecodes describing what video is on a master tape, and slipping it in
the tape case so that you can find file video later.) It's kind of the same idea. I have
150-200 of these Blu Ray disks with archive video starting in 2009. I have used video
from them quite a bit and never lost a clip. The funny thing is, one time when I WAS
doing a 'shooter for hire' gig (a reality TV pilot) I finished dumping the footage to the external
hard drive, and sent it to the post house via Fed Ex. I called them a few days later to
verify that they had received it. They had. I then verified they had checked for the
footage, to make sure the hard drive was good. They had. I reminded them to back
it up, which probably annoyed the editor as I'm sure he already knows his stuff but
I just like to make sure because I can't hold a copy for them indefinitely on my hard drive.
Anyways, about four months later I get a call.
'Um......I know it's a long shot but do you still have our footage? We looked at it
but got busy and never got around to editing it. And a shooter grabbed the hard drive
to dump his footage to it and erased everything on it without checking that we had
backed it up and....somehow it never got backed up.'
I told him....'sorry but if you remember the paperwork I emailed you.....I only hold
onto the footage for 7 days after you receive it. You need to let me know if there are
any issues before that. I'll check my hard drives but I'm sure I cleared it long ago.'
Sure enough nothing. And then on the spur of the moment I decided to check my
Blu Ray archives. And wouldn't you know, I had been very overworked that week
and accidentally archived that footage onto Blu Ray as I do with 'my' projects.
Let me tell you, I was the hero for that, and the editor (who had never told his boss as
he was holding out hope that I would have it) was VERY happy with me.
 
The post above mentions deleting.

What is the cost of keeping.. 6TBx2 is $250 so 1tb is $40

So you shoot a tb per day that is $40, id work it into costs or line item it.

Now you have you TB on two discs but still have your contract state that the data is not safe with you... because you should not trust regular drives IMO.

==

If im doing a 'dump and run' job with a DIT , runner or 1st that is simple.. I just dont touch the cards.. data is just nothing to do with me
 
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I use a service called Backblaze and have like 7,5TB stored in the cloud. Its not perfect (it only stores what you have a copy off on your drives etc) but for 50$ a year its pretty good.
 
morgan_moore said:
The post above mentions deleting.

What is the cost of keeping.. 6TBx2 is $250 so 1tb is $40

So you shoot a tb per day that is $40, id work it into costs or line item it.

Now you have you TB on two discs but still have your contract state that the data is not safe with you... because you should not trust regular drives IMO.

==

If im doing a 'dump and run' job with a DIT , runner or 1st that is simple.. I just dont touch the cards.. data is just nothing to do with me
Click to expand...

Well for me, it's not just the cost....it's also the space. I have around 15TB in external
drives, another 5TB in internal RAID and I seem to always be running out of space.
My edit bay/office/video gear storage is around 200 square feet, so with all my video
gear plus my edit bay in there, the last thing I want is even more hard drives full of video......
it already feels like they start breeding when I turn around and next thing I know, every
available surface in my edit bay has a couple hard drives on it.
 
alaskacameradude said:
If you are a 'one man video company'
who shoots, and then does all post as well, you probably need a different strategy.
Click to expand...

I'm definitely a "one man video company."

I just spent a bunch of time organizing things so I can mothball a bunch of my stuff and free up space. I think that if I find a better way moving forward that this can work better on an on-going basis.
 
I just bought a tape drive LTO4. Hope that will solve a storage problem. (Dell ultrium lto4 50 euro ebay)

Does anyone know if 4K xavc-i can be compressed for storage on tape?
 
Publimix said:
I just bought a tape drive LTO4. Hope that will solve a storage problem. (Dell ultrium lto4 50 euro ebay)

Does anyone know if 4K xavc-i can be compressed for storage on tape?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that when it comes storage of video files on a tape drive that there's really no such thing as additional compression for that purpose.
 
alaskacameradude said:
Well for me, it's not just the cost....it's also the space.
Click to expand...

Well in terms of TB space.. yep Im buying another pair every month or two, usually at the start of any bigger project.

I see buy a pair of HDs probably no different to old schoolers buying a box of beta tapes

Physical space? Well Ive got one 84 litre plastic box (home and office) that isnt full yet but getting there - Im on drive pair 35

Also I have a google doc listing the content of each drive by directory name so I know which drive to go back to

S
 
alaskacameradude said:
My edit bay/office/video gear storage is around 200 square feet.
Click to expand...

How do you fit in there? Sounds like small bathroom if my calculations from feet to meters are correct. While Alaska is so big.

The heat of the computer will keep it nice and warm I suppose :smile:
 
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Publimix said:
How do you fit in there? Sounds like small bathroom if my calculations from feet to meters are correct. While Alaska is so big.

The heat of the computer will keep it nice and warm I suppose :smile:
Click to expand...

Well, it may be a little bigger. I measured it at one time for tax purposes as it is
a home based office and I probably went conservative just in case of an audit. But I'm
pretty sure it's not over 300 square feet. Enough for a edit desk, speakers, printer, and
a few gear shelves as well as hanging hooks on the walls for cords, and all sorts of stuff.
But it certainly isn't big.

Little known fact about Alaska. Yes, it's VERY big....like big enough that if you put
it on the United States, it would touch the east coast, the west coast, Canada, and
Mexico (we have outflung islands in both the southeast and southwest of the state
which expands the reach quite a bit.) However there is very little private property.
A sizable majority of the land in Alaska is owned by the federal government (about
60%). Then there is state government (about 25%) and Alaska Native corporation
owned land. Which leaves about 1% of the land in Alaska as privately owned.
 
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