SO basically if you shoot in moderately cold to very cold environments, the current sleuth of Panasonic might not be up to the task. Walk backwards away from the camera, take a couple of gentle steps, turn around and run!
sticky focus ring in cold weather
- Thread starter DM_rider
- Start date
SO basically if you shoot in moderately cold to very cold environments, the current sleuth of Panasonic might not be up to the task. Walk backwards away from the camera, take a couple of gentle steps, turn around and run!
Just left the 200A in the freezer overnight. The ring was tighter, but it was never stuck.
Thanks for the test David, do you have an 170 or 150 or DVX to compare with?
I'd guess that the focus ring design didn't change much, if at all on the 200a.
So, I think we've clearly narrowed it down to an issue that is happening with the 170 and 150 only.
docrock
Active member
Same situation here. I live in Alaska and shot all winter with my 200a (inside/outside and both) and original 200. I have owned the 200a since it came out last spring and have NEVER had my ring stick. I shot in January, in Fairbanks. -48 (F). It didn't seem to slow down or gum up at all with the extremes. Certainly not as much as I did personally
I don't have the 170, but was going to sell my original 200 in the next month or so to finance the 170 purchase for this next year of work. Not going to happen (after reading this, I NEED cold weather performance)...but I will replace with another 200a. I cannot have this issue. Period. It is still under 32 at night up here! LOL. Too bad. I was looking forward to the 170.
Ugly.
Jer
I don't have the 170, but was going to sell my original 200 in the next month or so to finance the 170 purchase for this next year of work. Not going to happen (after reading this, I NEED cold weather performance)...but I will replace with another 200a. I cannot have this issue. Period. It is still under 32 at night up here! LOL. Too bad. I was looking forward to the 170.
Ugly.
Jer
but they are gaining hvx200a sales! I wonder if that has a higher profit margin? Why would they care... corporate profitability is all that matters.
Wouldn't this be considered a warranty fix? I was told that it shouldn't behave the way it does in post #6 of this thread... sent it to Panasonic and was then told everything was functioning as it should, which is simply untrue. No more responses on Panasonic's end, what's going on here? are they hoping that this issue will just die out and be forgotten? because it wont be.
Recalling the order of threads, the story unfolded in this fashion:
Hi DM Rider,
Please contact me via PM, I want to see your camera. There is no reason for this experience. So the engineers want to see your camera. I will pay for shipping both ways
Thanks,
Jan
--------------------------
Guys,
I am sorry but the focus ring does not act like it normally does when it is warm. This is a fact. The lubrication becomes thick when it is cold, this too is a fact. We sent the HPX170s to the Iditarod this year to shoot with the guys that shoot in cold weather, and we are talking very cold here. There were points that the focus ring wouldn't move at all, but that proved to be true on the HPX500s as well. Lubrications become thick and there is no way around it.
Sorry,
Jan
---------------------------
Hi,
The feedback that I got from the factory on this issue was that the lubrication they are using is virtually the same. Unfortunately your clip did not show the video from the camera. Yes the focus will feel stiff, no question, it should.
We brought in DMRider's camera for evaluation a while back and put it in the freezer overnight with an HVX200. While both were stiff to the touch the next morning they felt virtually the same.
Best,
Jan
---------------------------
So it sounds like regardless of the initial response (which is the correct response) - which is that this behavior shouldn't exist on the focus ring. However, after identifying the flaw, the fall-back explanation is that even $20,000 lenses didn't do well in -50C conditions.. Okay, that's probably a valid statement, but it doesn't address why the heck does the focus ring stick in +40F temperatures? The $20,000 lenses surely can take +40F temps, because my old DVX could take it! And even that little crappy silver focus nub on my HV30 could turn smoothly in +40F temps!
Last edited:
Hi,
The feedback that I got from the factory on this issue was that the lubrication they are using is virtually the same. Unfortunately your clip did not show the video from the camera. Yes the focus will feel stiff, no question, it should.
We brought in DMRider's camera for evaluation a while back and put it in the freezer overnight with an HVX200. While both were stiff to the touch the next morning they felt virtually the same.
Best,
Jan
^
I have a major problem with this statement right here. How they came up with that conclusion is beyond me.
The feedback that I got from the factory on this issue was that the lubrication they are using is virtually the same. Unfortunately your clip did not show the video from the camera. Yes the focus will feel stiff, no question, it should.
We brought in DMRider's camera for evaluation a while back and put it in the freezer overnight with an HVX200. While both were stiff to the touch the next morning they felt virtually the same.
Best,
Jan
^
I have a major problem with this statement right here. How they came up with that conclusion is beyond me.
Barry_Green
Moderator
They are well aware of the situation, more aware than you may know. I have taken this as high as I can. I do not know if anything will come of it.
I figured they would be. I'd just like some sort of technical explanation as to why the focus ring on the 170 sticks and the 200's does not. I was thinking that when I sent my camera in a while back that Panasonic would take care of this and fix it. If I would have known that nothing was going to be done about this, I would have returned the 170 and gone with an Ex1 or a 200a.
I put too much faith in Panasonics customer support and their products. Now me, and thousands of others are stuck with a camera that you can't pull smooth focuses with in moderately cold weather...
I still believe that Panasonic really screwed up big time with this. It feels like our problem is essentially being ignored until it goes away.
Last edited:
Barry_Green
Moderator
Sometimes they can fix things (lens wobble). Sometimes they can't (aliased 480/60i output on the original HVX200). They do try. They listen. Their response on the lens wobble was excellent.
I have taken it to people other than Jan, I went direct to the Japanese engineers and to the service managers. I explained the issue clearly.
Working with the Japanese is not like working with Americans. The Japanese are typically highly averse to confrontation. Whereas in America someone might say "hell no, we ain't fixin' that!" in Japan, you're more likely to hear "thank you for your opinion, we will look into it." And they will. But typically they will make no commitment that they can do anything about it. Which is reasonable, in that they haven't studied it yet, I guess.
I do not know if this will be one of those things that can be changed, or one of those that can't be changed.
My standard attitude in a situation like this is to "hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." If I was shooting in sub-freezing cold weather situations, I'd probably just use a Varizoom or a Foxi. I long ago learned that sometimes what's supplied built-in isn't good enough; I use an external monitor because the built-in LCD isn't good enough, and I use external microphones because the built-in isn't good enough. For sub-freezing temperatures this is probably a case where you should turn to external solutions too.
What's frustrating is that the DVX does it just fine, so I don't know why the new series sticks when the DVX didn't. Perhaps it's something as simple as metal contraction, maybe the tolerances inside are much tighter than they were on the DVX and so when the outer metal contracts and the glass doesn't, it sticks until friction warms it up enough to unstick it... I don't know. But if that were the case, I wouldn't expect that there'd be anything they could do about it.
In any case, it looks like until we hear anything from them, the workaround would be to use an external focus controller for those times when you have to shoot in conditions cold enough to render the focus ring unsatisfactory to use.
I have taken it to people other than Jan, I went direct to the Japanese engineers and to the service managers. I explained the issue clearly.
Working with the Japanese is not like working with Americans. The Japanese are typically highly averse to confrontation. Whereas in America someone might say "hell no, we ain't fixin' that!" in Japan, you're more likely to hear "thank you for your opinion, we will look into it." And they will. But typically they will make no commitment that they can do anything about it. Which is reasonable, in that they haven't studied it yet, I guess.
I do not know if this will be one of those things that can be changed, or one of those that can't be changed.
My standard attitude in a situation like this is to "hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." If I was shooting in sub-freezing cold weather situations, I'd probably just use a Varizoom or a Foxi. I long ago learned that sometimes what's supplied built-in isn't good enough; I use an external monitor because the built-in LCD isn't good enough, and I use external microphones because the built-in isn't good enough. For sub-freezing temperatures this is probably a case where you should turn to external solutions too.
What's frustrating is that the DVX does it just fine, so I don't know why the new series sticks when the DVX didn't. Perhaps it's something as simple as metal contraction, maybe the tolerances inside are much tighter than they were on the DVX and so when the outer metal contracts and the glass doesn't, it sticks until friction warms it up enough to unstick it... I don't know. But if that were the case, I wouldn't expect that there'd be anything they could do about it.
In any case, it looks like until we hear anything from them, the workaround would be to use an external focus controller for those times when you have to shoot in conditions cold enough to render the focus ring unsatisfactory to use.
Ya, I hear what you mean Barry. What frustrates me the most is the fact that the HVX200 never had this problem, and then a better camera comes out (170) and the focus ring is terrible in cold weather.
I would have never guessed that the 170 would have this issue based on how well the HVX200/DVX100 perform in colder conditions. Typically when an upgrade to an older camera comes out, you'd assume that it will function as good, if not better than the previous model.
Hopefully this tells Panasonic that their cold weather research needs to be stepped up a notch maybe?
I really hope that they can come up with a good solution for this. Just have to wait and see.
I would have never guessed that the 170 would have this issue based on how well the HVX200/DVX100 perform in colder conditions. Typically when an upgrade to an older camera comes out, you'd assume that it will function as good, if not better than the previous model.
Hopefully this tells Panasonic that their cold weather research needs to be stepped up a notch maybe?
I really hope that they can come up with a good solution for this. Just have to wait and see.
Josiah Cooper
Member
That's just it though, they didn't need to have top notch cold weather testing before, because there was no problems. I bet you the next update, be it 170a or just a 190 or something, will have addressed the issue.
monday1313
Active member
My problem is that their marketing media says it's good for extreme environments.
Therefore, it should be good for extreme environments.
It's a case of either false or misleading advertising, and I'm not trying to start a debate on the semantics of that claim or what specifically was meant by the advertising copy. That fact of the matter is that if you bought the 170 expecting to use it in winter, you've gotten burned. Something needs to be done about it.
While I understand Barry's point, something as integral to the operation of a camera as the focus ring, should work out of the box. Period.
Therefore, it should be good for extreme environments.
It's a case of either false or misleading advertising, and I'm not trying to start a debate on the semantics of that claim or what specifically was meant by the advertising copy. That fact of the matter is that if you bought the 170 expecting to use it in winter, you've gotten burned. Something needs to be done about it.
While I understand Barry's point, something as integral to the operation of a camera as the focus ring, should work out of the box. Period.
agreed
This is exactly what I have been trying to say all along.
Seems like we've lost all contact with Jan as well. Hopefully she's hard at work trying to solve this issue and get us some good answers and solutions.
Exactly! It's not a some gimmicky new feature introduced on the 170 that fails to work properly.. We're talking about a trivial focus ring here...