stereo microphone advice (yes I've read the stickies)

HotConductor

HotConductor

Well-known member
Greetings!

Please have mercy on me as a first time poster. I approach this forum with great thanks to all of you for your knowledge and willingness to help out people like myself!

I've read all the sticky threads (including the shootout, which was awesome) and searched all over the net, but I have yet to find an affordable solution, or any real recommendations...

I need a decent single-point stereo external microphone for my DVX-100B.

There are plenty of recomendations for a mono external shotgun mic, but I haven't seen much information at all on a single-point stereo shotgun mic. Ideally it would be inexpensive, and just a tad higher fidelity and more directional than the on-board mic. My budget is tiny.

Please don't tell me to just take a soundboard feed, so forth. I have a multitrack portable digital audio workstation that I will be recording various projects on. I need a single-point stereo directional mic for general use. Interviews, promo videos, so forth.

Any advice would be extremely helpful!
 
Welcome to DVXUser!

The biggest question here is: why do you want want, specifically, a stereo microphone?

Stereo mics are great, but have very limited - and very specific - uses such as recording music, ambience tracks, and FX.

In general, on-camera dialog is recorded in mono. 99% of your dialog should be centered in the final mix anyway (rare cases where voices are panned off-center to accentuate off-camera dialog). Recording in stereo is going to create editing challenges for you. The reason you haven't seen much recommendation for stereo mics is that they are not used for your intended purposes.

For interviews, promo videos, and whatever else you have in mind, your best bet is not only to get a good short shotgun (inexpensive but good quality: Rode NTG-2) but also to remove that mic from the camera by mounting it on a fish pole (boom) so that the mic gets close to the dialog. On-cam mics are lousy at recording any crucial dialog. Yeah, it takes a second person to swing the boom, but it's either that or suffer from sub-par audio (which will kill your production).
 
You should never put a stereo mic. on a camera - it's no-no.

You should always have a stereo mic. *off* the camera - if it's on the camera the stereo image will move and waver as you move the camera and it sounds horrible.

But a good little stereo mic. is the Beyer MCE72.

You can read the Sound On Sound review HERE.

beyerdynamicmce72.l.jpg


One of the nice things about this mic. is that it doesn't have a fat front like most of the others - this means that it is easy to fit in inexpensive windshields like a Rycote Softie - or you can even use a foam windshield with a Windjammer over it.

I hope this helps.
 
Thank you both for your help!

As to the mic on a boom... I already have a great Shure boom mic. And I agree COMPLETELY with you.

And as to never having a stereo mic on-camera, I need it anyways. Although it might not be the most preferable option, I would like to have it available for quick projects that need audio that works, but maybe not for release. Just something quick than sounds better than the built-in mics.

Thank you!
 
HotConductor said:
...

There are plenty of recomendations for a mono external shotgun mic, but I haven't seen much information at all on a single-point stereo shotgun mic. Ideally it would be inexpensive, and just a tad higher fidelity and more directional than the on-board mic. My budget is tiny.

Please don't tell me to just take a soundboard feed, so forth. I have a multitrack portable digital audio workstation that I will be recording various projects on. I need a single-point stereo directional mic for general use. Interviews, promo videos, so forth.

Any advice would be extremely helpful!
Click to expand...

Note that "stereo directional mic" or "stereo shotgun mic" are a contradiction in terms. Shotguns isolate sound from relatively small area and reject sounds from other directions while stereo mics need to pick up sound over a wide angle of reception and send it to the two channels in proportion to the direction from which it's coming. Shotgun mics pickup from a narrow zone while stereo mics pickup from a broad area - they are entirely the opposite of each other.
 
I assume you might be recording music since you want stereo. For informal music recording, many musicians take a pair of similar mics (a matched pair is better) set them both on a single stand in front of the source, in a crossed (XY) configuration. This scheme will work for most any single point stereo recording. Note I said informal recording.

If you do this, you can broaden your mic selection and gain versatility way beyond a single stereo mic. For example, if you went small condensor, you could use a pair of Oktavas, Rode NT5's. Both the Oktava and Rodes are sold in matched pairs, but going this route, there would be many less expensive options. There are many articles which discuss X-Y placements for this setup. This will also work outdoors if you add a couple of Baby Ball Gags, hurricanes excepted. You could do something similar with shotguns, but that would be more unusual. Outdoors you may need zepplin or blimp wind protection for them also.

This crossed mic scheme is a very quick setup which can be done with one light stand and a suspension scheme. And it will get the mics off your cam which is pretty important if you are moving the cam during the shoot. Even if you are on a tripod, cam mounted mics will probably pickup zoom motors or you making cam adjustments.

Cheap audio is an oxymoron, but a pair of NT5's, light stand, suspension, and cable will run you under $600 and serve you in many other ways. If you need the BBG's for outdoor work, add $250.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/255009-REG/Rode_NT5_NT5_Matched_Pair.html

In the lower budget spectrum, Rode makes some inexpensive stereo mics, but they usually use 1/8" plugs, so you would need to change out or adapt to dual XLR plugs for the DVX audio inputs.

Best Regards,
Grant
 
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I appreciate the feedback, especially on the XY pattern. My background is in audio but in live and studio settings, not videography. I can easily throw some beautiful condenser mics in an XY pattern and film, but Im looking for something quick. Does there exist a single-point stereo mic setup in a cardiod pattern that runs on phantom power? I have a decent shotgun mic but Im looking for something camera-mountable that would be an upgrade from the built-in mics. Thank you for your help!
 
I'm sorry to bring this up again, but are you absolutely certain you want to use a stereo mic on-camera?

You say your background is in studio recording. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't wander aimless around the studio with a stereo mic in hand in the middle of a take. You can easily imagine how that would sound.

If you really want to spend some $$ and learn firsthand why everyone is telling you not to do this, do a search for 'stereo mic' at B&H and you'll get a bunch of possibilities. Most is not all of the major manufacturers have stereo mics of one sort or another.
 
Not sure what your budget is but you could look at the Rode NT4. But as others mentioned you generally use that type of mic for music recording, ambiance, effects, etc... If you feel the advice we give is logical then you may want to reconsider your purchase. Are you doing this as a hobby or profession? Also you say you come from the studio side. Do you use cheap mics in your recording booth?

Nicole
 
If I shoot a large concert on 6 DVX cams and occasionally want to mix in the on-camera ambient noise or yelling or singing, I want a stereo source. I want my cam operators to be able to run around filming without a boom, and I want a stereo mic on each to occasionally mix in some of the noise from a given take. So yes, there are a billion mics out there that might do this.. Which is why I thought Id ask here.
 
Have you looked at the Rode brands of mics or the NT4 I just suggested? By the way what is your budget range please?

Nicole
 
HotConductor said:
If I shoot a large concert on 6 DVX cams and occasionally want to mix in the on-camera ambient noise or yelling or singing, I want a stereo source. I want my cam operators to be able to run around filming without a boom, and I want a stereo mic on each to occasionally mix in some of the noise from a given take. So yes, there are a billion mics out there that might do this.. Which is why I thought Id ask here.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I still think stereo mics aren't great in this situation.

If you shoot a concert with 6 cameras, and each has a stereo mic, the stereo image of the music is going to suffer cutting between cameras... and as each camera moves, its recorded sound field will shift.

Stereo mics are great for recording ambience (room) in a live venue... but they're best locked down in the same spot the entire time. Roaming camera audio from a shotgun mic (which, yes, will be mono) will give you plenty to work with.
 
Thanks for giving more info on what you're actually trying to do!

Neumann has the RSM 191 that can give you M/S or X/Y and is small & lightweight with a great Max SPL which you're probably going to need with what you're shooting. It's also NOT cheap.

Perhaps the AT 4029 would be a better option? Max SPL is 20dB less, but you're paying a 10th of the cost of the Neumann.
 
I use decent mics in my studio. AKG tube condensers, AT dual condenser/dynamics, a pair of ribbons, so forth. Most of my mics are in the $200 - $850 range. Nothing over 1K.

That Rode NT4 looks great actually. Originally I was hoping to find something in the sub $350 range, since I'll have to buy a couple of them.
 
HotConductor said:
If I shoot a large concert on 6 DVX cams and occasionally want to mix in the on-camera ambient noise or yelling or singing, I want a stereo source. I want my cam operators to be able to run around filming without a boom, and I want a stereo mic on each to occasionally mix in some of the noise from a given take. So yes, there are a billion mics out there that might do this.. Which is why I thought Id ask here.
Click to expand...

No you don't need stereo for ambient such as you describe. Though it won't be wonderful, you will probably want to use a shotgun so you can better isolate the ambient subject such as person in the crowd. John Willet and Jordan Block made a good suggestion if you feel stereo is the way to go. Make sure you have top notch suspension or you WILL get a lot of handling noise. Either way, this is probably going to put your mic too far away for recording individuals speaking-singing.

You seem to know what you want, and want the list to justify your pursuit, which as you describe it, won't happen since it is pretty contrary to recording quality audio.

Let me get this straight, you have a "miniscule budget" and are going to orchestrate a 6 cam shoot..... and we are debating whether you shoot stereo or mono ambient....

Best Regards,
Grant
 
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HotConductor said:
If I shoot a large concert on 6 DVX cams and occasionally want to mix in the on-camera ambient noise or yelling or singing, I want a stereo source. I want my cam operators to be able to run around filming without a boom, and I want a stereo mic on each to occasionally mix in some of the noise from a given take. So yes, there are a billion mics out there that might do this.. Which is why I thought Id ask here.
Click to expand...

I *did* say the most suitable in by earlier post - the Beyer MCE72.

It is ideal for an inexpensive on-camera mic. with the bonus that it is easy to windshield, unlike most of the others.

The Rode NT4 is a nice stereo mic. and is the equivalent of an XY pair of NYT5 (the heads are the same), but it is larger and heavy and very expensive to windshield properly.
 
HotConductor said:
That Rode NT4 looks great actually. Originally I was hoping to find something in the sub $350 range, since I'll have to buy a couple of them.
Click to expand...

But the NT4 is not really suitable for you - I would say it's a bit heavy for a camera.

See my post above - the MCE72 should be in the sub $350 range.
 
Thank you for your help. The Beyer MCE72 is perfect for what I'm wanting to do. Thank you!

Yes, I was/am asking you for advice in purchasing a stereo mic with my miniscule budget. I wasn't particularly wanting to debate stereo vs mono, as there are MANY purposes for this mic. I simply want something that will be an upgrade to the existing on-camera built-in mics. As to the 6 cam concert shoot I was describing... Feature length concerts do it all the time. Watch the latest videos from the Rolling Stones or U2. For that matter, watch the Beastie Boys' "I shot that" for an amateur and ultra-cheap budget version of this technique.

I'm not asking for a stereo directional mic for interviews, but rather a stereo directional (cardiod) mic for quick free-floating shoots. Simply put, an upgrade to the built-in on-camera mics. I agree with you in general practice regarding a simple shotgun mic for most purposes. I have a pair of MOTU 896s and have built them into a portable setup. Usually I throw 16 mics out of the floor and multitrack the whole show. If I want audio from a cam I just use the mounted shotgun. What I need this stereo mic for is an UNconventional shoot. I completely understand your objection.

Seriously, thank you for your help and feedback.
 
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