stepping up to cine lenses without blowing the bank account

No warranty? No affiliation whatsoever. Zeiss really firmly repudiates the whole concept here:
http://www.canon5dtips.com/2011/06/oups-moment-about-the-baby-primes/

Some choice excerpts:
Carl Zeiss is in no way involved in the babyPrimes project or product of and does not maintain a relationship to the manufacturer.

The company Kelvinkamera+ or the quoted persons were not and are not in any form involved in the DigiPrime project or other projects at Carl Zeiss.

Carl Zeiss cannot confirm that the optics used in the advertised product line are from Carl Zeiss, nor can we confirm that these optics meet the typically high standards of a Carl Zeiss lens
Click to expand...

Seems doubtful that any such "babyprimes" product will ever reach the market, I'm sure there are lawyers involved at this point.
 
noticed baby primes are eos mount. so you would need an e to eos
at least there is aperture control, so no need for birger
PRbabyprimes_H.jpg
 
Last edited:
Barry_Green said:
Seems doubtful that any such "babyprimes" product will ever reach the market, I'm sure there are lawyers involved at this point.
Click to expand...

Probably why my email bounced back that I sent a few days ago....

or who knows... maybe someone at Zeiss made a mistake... selling him the lens and then someone higher up realized wait... someone can buy our cp2's for 40% cheaper... better stop it... not pro or con either way...

Unless the baby primes are the same quality and they do cost =40% less...
 
Last edited:
yeah, sure!!. you will get the exact the same quality from the off brand knock off. :Drogar-KnockedOut(D

the lens would work great with your sonnie, penosonic or connan cameras.
 
This is what CP's should look like to begin with. That recent Zeiss obsession with the size of lenses is just ridiculous. They could build small light fast primes 50 years ago why not now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
optitek said:
This is what CP's should look like to begin with. That recent Zeiss obsession with the size of lenses is just ridiculous. They could build small light fast primes 50 years ago why not now.
Click to expand...

because the long lens is 80mm long ish and the wide lens has a 70 or so angle of view and the lenses are all the same size with the teeth in the same place for fast changing without moving MB or FF and only using one filter size ?
 
I have designed many lens conversions. That's my specialty. That could be done without making lenses 5 inches in diameter, trust me.
Besides, Super Speeds are half the size and have gears in the same place, and they were designed 40 years ago, by ZEISS
 
Last edited:
to cover 18mmFF35 ? BTW they are 4.5 in .. anyway - I think the travel is too long !

lets move on , im sticking with my 35 2.5 nikkor E I just got for £45 :)
 
Cekko said:
Hi.
The LOMO zoom 25-250 (15-1 OCT-19)
and
http://cgi.ebay.com/LOMO-Konvas-OCT...488?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb9658360

Is a good choice for tourist promotional videos, documentaries, commercials .....?
Weight is not a problem.
I am looking for a solution all in one, as an alternative to my Canon EF L and FD lenses?
Thanks![h=1][/h]
Click to expand...

We already (briefly) mentioned this one a few pages back...

It's OK and has the 'look' of a Lomo - but you won't get the 'creamy' look of a Squarefront Anamorphic Lomo (or, obviously!) the horizontal flares, as it's not anamorphic. Note if you buy the anamorphic adapter, it's a 'rear of lens' type - this means you won't get the trademark flares that front ana's produce (if you're looking for that)... so, if you're comparing & looking at Lomo footage on the web, make sure you don't use anamorphic shots as your benchmark, as this is a spherical lens & will give a very different look.

It's old cine glass - if it's been well looked after (& serviced) you'll get a good image, but be prepared for regular servicing. Manual zoom (obviously) although you could add a motor... it's heavy, so you need to have it on a rig (all the time) - plus side is it should maintain focus whilst zooming. Matteboxes can be a problem, as these Russian lenses are often large. It's range is good 25-250, but, as with most zooms, you'll need to loose a stop at least (ie stop down) before the lens performs well (ie it may be soft at the edges etc).

Big downside if you are used to L & FD's is the T-stop... this one starts at T5.1 so it's going to be a very different lens to use vs your current batch.

Old Cine zooms are good if you want the look and are prepared to work 'with them'... (ie - it's not likely you'll be pulling it off the sticks to get a quick H/H shot etc, so it will define a method of work & way of shooting) :)

Hope that helps.
 
Thanks! MadMonkFish

on 25-250 f T3,2 (similar Canon lenses f2,8 ?)

on 50-500 f T4,5 ana adapter (then it is useless for shooting anamorphic?) Excluding the flare, which can add post, but do not seek to

(ie it may be soft at the edges etc) Can you explain this better?

Sorry my english very bad

thanks again
 
Cekko said:
Thanks! MadMonkFish

on 25-250 f T3,2 (similar Canon lenses f2,8 ?)

on 50-500 f T4,5 ana adapter (then it is useless for shooting anamorphic?) Excluding the flare, which can add post, but do not seek to

(ie it may be soft at the edges etc) Can you explain this better?

Sorry my english very bad

thanks again
Click to expand...

Cekko - your English is better than my Italian - only word I know (without Google translate) is Ciao - LOL!

The 25-250 is T5.1 - T22. In F-stops T5.1 will probably by F3.2 (maybe F3.5 or F4) in it's spherical mode (non anamorphic config).

It becomes 50-500 when the rear anamorphic adapter is used. As it is a 'rear' of lens adapter, this also acts as a focal doubler (that's why it becomes 50-500). You will also loose light transmission, meaning the T-stop reduces by around a stop/stop and a half.

So, 25-250 T5.1 (F3.2) becomes maybe a 50-500 T6.1 (at a guess - you'll loose at least a stop) so that's approx F4.5 (to be safe).

Remember your minimum focus distance will also be about 1.7m (without diopters) - but, as it's a zoom, you can still get some nice out of focus effects. You will also need it collimating with & without the ana adapter, if you plan to swap between these in the field.

As with all lenses, especially zooms (cine or not) when wide open, they'll not perform at their best (you will see this even with primes - but zooms show it more - if you have a zoom now, do some focus tests on it's widest aperture vs a few stops down). Essentially, the zoom will be sharper a few stops away from being wide open. This can be exaggerated on older lenses (so you need to look out for this)... you may have softer edges or even a softer image.

Regarding the rear anamorphic adapter, it's not useless - but it will not give you the look of front of lens anamorphics. Roundfronts (of all types) or Squarefronts place the anamorphic elements in front of the lens... this means you get a minimal light loss and also the 'path to sensor/film/neg' etc is 'squeezed 'first' rather than 'last'. This is why front of lens anas give the effects everyone thinks of with anamorphic (extend ovular bokeh, creamy 'look' and the horizontal flares etc). Rear of lens adapters are the last glass in the chain, and therefore really only perform the task of doing the optical X2 squeeze. They will affect the look slightly, but don't expect a rear Ana adapter to give you the anamorphic look (in terms of bokeh/flare etc)... as they are just squeezing a normal spherical image into anamorphic. Round/Squarefronts are the reverse and have their anamorphic squeeze first, hence more distortion/look/cream/flare etc.

I have an OPF-18 (20-120/40-240) and it's very hard to get any typical 'anamorphic' lens flare from it... but my Squares flare easily. Although, I have to say, flare is over used these days. Anamorphics are all about framing in a wide aspect, rather than crazy blue streaks, IMO.

However, the advantage of having a rear ana adapter is you'll be able to get wider vistas and more cinematic framing ie when you are at 50mm, you'll have a vertical Fov of 50mm but a horizontal Fov of 25mm.

Hope all that helped :)
 
Thanks for the clarification.

70% shooting outdoors day light mountain
30% shooting indoor with lights

In the final of Euro 1800 is a good purchase?
Zoom + ana + adapter on my FS100
Or look for an opportunity Angie or Cooke next year?
 
Cekko said:
Thanks for the clarification.

70% shooting outdoors day light mountain
30% shooting indoor with lights

In the final of Euro 1800 is a good purchase?
Zoom + ana + adapter on my FS100
Or look for an opportunity Angie or Cooke next year?
Click to expand...

No problem with the clarification :thumbsup:

If you've not used older cine zooms before, this would be a good place to start... it's not as fast as a Cooke 20-100 (T3.1) or Angie 20-120 (T2.9 )... but it's cheaper :)

Price wise around $2K (Euro 1440-1500) would be about right for lens & ana (not inc NEX adapter) IMO. This isn't one of the most in demand zooms, which is why the few that are available keep popping up on Ebay. However, at this price, if it's in good condition & the lens isn't scratched etc, you should be OK and able to sell on (if you want to move to something else later).

You're fine 70% outside with the Lomo... and 30% inside with lights is also OK. It depends what you're shooting & what your expectations are! If you're old school and are used to lighting, it's not uncommon to time a whole show at T5.1 or T8 etc. If you're used to 5DMKII lighting (ie pushing iso high) with very limited/avaialble light, then you might find the T5.1 a bit of a pain - but it depends on your shooting style.

But, if you're using an FS100, you're already getting a lot of sensitivity... so, in a sense, having a limited T-stop zoom will be useful - as you won't be wide open at F2.8 etc - it'll be wide open at F4 (or F5 in Ana). That might be useful.

Last thought, many great movies in days gone by shot on slower lenses - and we're always battling the sun outside (well, in the UK not so much - but you guys in Italia will be!), so the lens might end up being helpful (and, personally, I prefer the feeling/operation of old manual zooms).

Good luck!
 
thanks
I owe you a beer!
:beer:

I am 13 years of experience in television news bradcasting,
and tourism promotional documentaries,spot,.....,
Beta SP, Digitalbetacam, HPX500 HD Fuji 17x7.6x2 , HPX171, Canon 7D.

But it is the first time that I inform you on 35mm cine lenses to buy.
 
Cekko said:
thanks
I owe you a beer!
:beer:

I am 13 years of experience in television news bradcasting,
and tourism promotional documentaries,spot,.....,
Beta SP, Digitalbetacam, HPX500 HD Fuji 17x7.6x2 , HPX171, Canon 7D.

But it is the first time that I inform you on 35mm cine lenses to buy.
Click to expand...

Beer is good! :beer:

Glad to be of help.

You're showing your age (LOL) - Beta SP & DigiBeta... I even remember off/on-line linear editing (RM440's to control 2 machines) so I'm a fellow oldie!

With your experience level, it should be no problem moving to the cine lenses :) and cinezooms will retain focus as you're used to with ENG style zooms.

Let us know how you get on!
 
One of the primary differences that I see between cine glass and still glass is in the flaring characteristics. Most cine primes (Super Speeds, Standards, Master Primes, Ultra Primes, Cooke S4s, Panchros, most Ang. zooms etc. etc.) flare less and "more pleasantly" than still lenses do. Take a spin around the internet to find the AC article on Chicago for a really nice run down on the
flaring characteristics of several different lenses.

I say this at the same time that I personally own a set of Nikon AIS primes (24 2.8, 35 2.8, 50 1.4, 85 1.4, 105 2.5 and 180 2.8) as well as a Tokina 11-16 zoom that I use with a fader and a cheap Fotodiox adaptor on the FS100. I agree that for most of our projects good glass is good glass. The old still lenses look great, and the Nikon AIS/AFS lenses are really wonderful (and cheap!). The Tokina 11-16 is a dream lens any way you cut it, and I think it stands up against its cine counterparts very nicely.

Lastly, de-clicking your old AIS primes is simple and easy and will only take you about an hour to do the whole set if you're careful and slow. It's a bit nerve wracking at first, but simply requires a tiny screw driver, a steady hand and a deal of patience. The only tricky lens for me was the 105 which has an odd screw attached to an internal component that one should not under any circumstances unscrew. If you feel a screw with a LOT of tension, don't unscrew it, do the others an see if you can pull the mount of your lens.

Cheers!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top