stepping up to cine lenses without blowing the bank account

J Davis

J Davis

Veteran
Just wanted to start a thread we can share info.

I've been doing a little research and my first impressions show that there are good options out there.
Take a look at the winning bid and the focal length range on this.
PL mount s35 Angenieux 20-120mm f2.6 T2.9 Cinema Zoom sold for $3250
link

The flange distance is on our side and I'm sure there are other options out there. I've also been considering the now discontinued red 18-50mm f2.8 T3 which seems to be flipping for $3 to $3.5 grand. PL mount also, lacking in focal marks but still very affordable.
 
No offense here, but for $3250 you can buy a lot of excellent used Nikon glass and I bet you will have a hard time, to see the difference in the finished product.

I shot Cooke Panchros and a set of vintage Nikon AIS 35mm glass on two RED-MX - they intercut absolute seamless - I would say if you are not after the cine features, like marks, deklicked iris and so on, it´s not worth the money.

On the other hand...

..let´s face it - a real cine lens looks so much better on your camera.
I have to confess, I was tempted to go that route. Not for the look of the footage, but for the look of the camera.
Yeah, stupid, I know. But the sheer size compared to a 35mm lens.. I guess it´s a male thing ;-)

It`s like huge matte boxes - they impress clients and actors and make you look so much more professional.
Simple psychology - but it works.


Frank
 
The Angie is a great lens - IMO more cinematic than the Red. With antique Angies, a lot depends on the year they're from (coatings/mechanics etc) but the one I have has such a silky smooth manual zoom.

The older Red (18-50mm) rather than the newer 17-50mm was also rehoused and sold under the Digioptical brand (a few DVXUsers grabbed 'em for their AF100s).

It's intersting to see PL interest start to peak again (as it did with the AF100) - I've seen PL glass start moving on Ebay again.

Of course, now a certain Mr Bloom is also buying into lots of PL (New Zeiss, PL mod Tokina, Red zooms and antique stuff) a lot more ops will start to look at PL as an option.

Advantages with antique glass certainily is the look (without dialing in much correction) - disadvantage (certainly in terms of cinema zooms!) is the weight of the lens and the fact that you're rigging more of a conventional set up (rails/supports etc) so it's moving into more expensive support options (you simply won't get quality lens supports that are cheap etc) - and there's no way you'd use an Angie without decent support (for any length of time!).

Lomo's are another good option - they're not just Sqaurefront/Roundfront anamorphic - but have some really nice sphericals (with great colour rendition). Normally these will be OCT-19 and you'll mod to PL (avoid the cheaper OCT-18 variants if you're working with a crew, as they're too small to put arri pitch focus gears on).

Personally, I like cinema zooms... they were workhorses in their time and some DP's swore by them (whilst others used primes).

Other zooms to look at would be the Cookes - 20-120 being the cheaper variation (older Varotal) or the newer 18-120 Cooke. Or, if you're brave and can handle the weight (!) something like the Cooke 25-250.

Obviously, quality cinema zooms retain focus when zooming - but, if you're used to electronic lenses, the fully manual nature of the 'old school' can sometimes be daunting for users.
 
Ryan, do you have some sort of widget that pops up when someone mentions Panchros here? :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

The older ones.

Frank
 
@Postmaster ... Thanks but I'm an AIs addict (link, link, link) and I've been all over that for a few yrs now. Since gh1 shipped 2 yrs ago.

As far as cine glass goes I'm very interested in wide zooms with 17 thru 50 being my main focus because I crop to 1:2.39
 
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Gathering info on the red cine zoom 18-50mm f2.8 T3, the close focus is nice, this is like having a macro

Focal Length Range: 18-50mm
T Stop Range: T3 – T22
Maximum f Stop: f/2.8
Close Focus from Lens Front: 1.73 inches
Length from Front of Lens to Image Plane: 6.16 inches
Minimum Marked Object Distance: 8 inches
Maximum Format Covered: Super 35mm
Diagonal Angle of View for 30mm Image Circle: 75.72 – 31.27 degrees
Iris Scales: Two opposing scales, whole stops marked
Angular Rotation of Iris: 48 degrees
Iris Drive Gear: 116 teeth 0.8 metric module x 0.2 inches wide x 2.91 inches from image plane
Focus Scales: Two opposing scales, footage marked from infinity to MOD
Angular Rotation from Infinity to MOD End-stop: 175 degrees
Angular Rotation Between End-stops: 180 degrees
Focus Drive Gear: 128 teeth, 0.8 metric module x 0.2 inches wide x 4.37 inches from image plane
Zoom Scales: Two opposing zoom scales
Angular Rotation of Zoom Scales: 51 degrees
Zoom Drive Gear: 125 teeth, 0.8 metric module x 0.2 inches wide x 3.59 inches from image plane
Length from Front of Lens to Lens Mount: 4.12 inches
Front Diameter: 4.5 inches (114mm)
Weight: 1.05 kg / 2.3 lbs.
Filter thread 72mm
 
I agree with Frank, the best move is classic Nikon glass. But if you insist on "cine" glass, you can put together a range of primes without taking out a mortgage if you look for classic lenses on non-standard mounts.

For example, here is an old Zeiss Super Speed Prime T* 9.5mm f/1.2 on an Arri Bayonet Mount ($1207) which you can combine with a Bayonet to Sony NEX E-mount Adapter ($156) for a total of $1463.

And here are a couple of interesting Bausch & Lomb Super Baltars for Super 35 on Leica M mounts (20/2 and 35/2) for $1584 each. With a relatively inexpensive Rainbow Imaging, Fotodiox or Novoflex Leica M to NEX adapter, you could have a couple of nice primes for less than the price of one $3900 Zeiss CP.2

For those of us in the U.S., these lens sellers are both overseas, so "you pays your money and you takes your chances" ;-)

Bill
 
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Hi Bill, I appreciate your advice but I own & shoot with a lot of manual still primes and zooms, nikon and FD.

They have their limitations and would love to keep this thread on topic about cine lenses in particular cine zooms.
 
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Red pro 17-50mm T2.9 and Duclos 11-16mm T2.8 ......affordable nice cine zooms. Duclos will release soon 70-200mm T2.8
 
I've been weighing up the newer 17-50 but buying it new is not in my budget. I'm not sure what they are flipping for or if they are even available preowned. Thats interesting about about Matt Duclos modding 70-200mm. Whats he converting, canon?
 
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J Davis said:
I've been weighing up the newer 17-50 but buying it new is not in my budget. I'm not sure what they are flipping for or if they are even available preowned. Thats interesting about about Matt Duclos modding 70-200mm. Whats he converting, canon?
Click to expand...

I bought my 17-50 RPZ used.

The 70-200 mm lens he is converting is a Nikon and it will be $10k.

He has said it is one of the sharpest lenses he has ever seen.
 
This reminds me of the thread on Reduser, can't find it now, where someone mentioned that the Nikon 14-24 was sharper than the Master Primes in that range.

I don't know whether that's true, I've never used them, but even if it's not, the difference in price between the Zeiss ZF/ZEs and the Zeiss CPs for a bigger barrel and a different diaphram is enough to prove to me beyond doubt that cine glass is an absolute scam.

mcgeedigital said:
The 70-200 mm lens he is converting is a Nikon and it will be $10k.

He has said it is one of the sharpest lenses he has ever seen.
Click to expand...

And the rehousing thing is an even bigger scam than the OEM cine glass.

IF you're buying the Nikon version that has lightening-fast AF and extremely effective VR, and putting on a camera that can take advantage of those features, it's MAYBE worth the $2.3k price. I'd wait to get it used at arond $1.5k though.

A version without those features for $10k? Scam.

It is a great lens but Nikon's 180mm 2.8 AI-s is even better and ~$500.
 
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