Stepping up from H4n

NoxNoctus

NoxNoctus

Well-known member
I'm working on a small independent feature, we shot part 1 with a Zoom H4n, and I'm not fully impressed with it. Sound's alright but shooting gets much more intensive in the next part and need something with a lower noise floor and easier level adjustment. I'm currently looking at the Edirol R-44, but is there something comparable around $1k that is generally recommended?

Thanks!
 
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The more I search around this site I'm seeing a lot of people picking up the Tascam HD-P2, which is encouraging as it's a bit cheaper!
 
The HD-P2 has some great features. It also has some rather deceptive drawbacks.

The most discouraging feature on the HD-P2 is the label of "MIC/LINE" on the XLR inputs. This unit cannot actually take line-level in through XLR (this is not addressed in the manual, which is also a bit frustrating). That label, I theorize, is left over from the says of the DA-P1, which is the DAT predecessor to the HD-P2 (and which could take line-in through the XLR).

On the whole, the HD-P2 is a great machine for the money... especially with TC in. Jsut be sure that you know it well before you use it.

Also consider the Fostex FR2-LE (less than the TASCAM) or the FR2 (slightly more than the TASCAM). The FR2 has the option of installing a Time Code card, if that's a feature that you need.
 
680 looks killer, but as far as having a soundguy working levels and such, since it's pushed into a menu, how difficult is it to do on the fly adjustment?
 
get a sound devices mix pre, 2 xlr cables with line-mic pads and your zoom will be fine.

i don't understand why all of a sudden everyone talks about using recorders with no mixers. is it the whole DSLR craze where they see phillip bloom using a zoom and think thats all they need?

a mixer is one of the most powerful tools in the chain of audio, and i'm constantly seeing it being left out. recorders are just that, recorders. they aren't designed to have awesome limiters or great mic pre's(hence the need for oade bro's mods). these little con/pro sumer recorder devices can record great sound but they are lacking features needed for recording dialogue for film.
 
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You can adjust levels with tthe DR-680 using the provided knob. You hit a button to choose the track, then turn the knob to adjust the level.

Yes a mixer is a much better way to record. I have a Sound Devices MixPre that I use, but you can get decent recordings without a mixer too. Record in 24 bit and you have more headroom, allowing you to record at a lower level, which keeps you safe from clipping.

Here's a video: http://vimeo.com/12497497

 
yeah i have an fr2le, but a psc m4 mkII mixer in front of it. sometimes you can find fr2le's used for the same price as a zoom.
 
Thanks for everyone's responses. On a similar side of this, would it be better if I devote that 1k or so to a high quality preamp mixer like the Sound Devices 302 and run it into the Zoom's XLRs?
 
A production company I work with just shot an indi feature using 2 Canon T2i cameras, and an Edirol R-44. It sounds pretty good, but for just a little more you can get the Oade Bros. modified R-44, that makes the preamps dead silent. The company I suggested the modified R-44 to wartied too long and couldn't get the R-44 from oade bros overnight like they wanted, but you can still get one new from them, which saves having to buy one yourself, then ship it to Oade. Anyway Oade has 2 or 3 different mods depending on what you want. I suggest you call them. If 4 tracks is the most you need then go for the R-44, and maybe a battery pack that will save you having to change out the AA batteries all the time.

This concert mod R-44 is only 30.00 more than the stock R-44 from B&H.

http://www.oade.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=OBA&Category_Code=EDIR44-Concert

The "Super" mos is more quiet (great for dialogue) but costs a little more.

http://www.oade.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=OBA&Category_Code=EDIR44-Super

Call them or peruse the site for info on exactly what the mods do. I have sent Doug Oade a couple emails asking him to do a mod for the Tascam DR-680, but he hasn't had the time or inclination to dig into that recorder yet.
 
Looks like I'm a little late to this party but I recently found this review of the Marantz PMD661, which runs about $600 and seems to be similar to the H4N in functionality but produces better sound:

http://transom.org/?p=1774

He has some sound clips in the review and you can definitely tell a difference between them and the clips in his H4N review:

http://transom.org/?p=5851

Oh, and he uses the same mics in all of the recorder reviews. There are also reviews of the Tascam and Sound Devices devices on the site.
 
Marantz PMD661

Marantz PMD661

I can vouch for the Marantz PMD661. It's got nice quiet preamps, a 1/4" headphone output, and true line level inputs. I bought one, and would buy one again if something happened to it.

I don't think you'd go wrong with a Tascam P2 HD either, but it's just more expensive.
 
manglerBMX said:
a mixer is one of the most powerful tools in the chain of audio, and i'm constantly seeing it being left out. recorders are just that, recorders. they aren't designed to have awesome limiters or great mic pre's(hence the need for oade bro's mods). these little con/pro sumer recorder devices can record great sound but they are lacking features needed for recording dialogue for film.
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too right. Even the Sound Devices 7 series preamps and especially the limiters aren't as good as those in the SD mixers.
 
Chadfish said:
I have sent Doug Oade a couple emails asking him to do a mod for the Tascam DR-680, but he hasn't had the time or inclination to dig into that recorder yet.
Click to expand...

Why would he want to do that? From what I read(!) the pres are pretty damn quiet on the DR-680. As for the R-44, the stock preamps are, in my book, absolutely silent enough if you are going to use an additional mixer and/or record mostly dialogue at regular levels.
 
sonidista said:
Why would he want to do that? From what I read(!) the pres are pretty damn quiet on the DR-680. As for the R-44, the stock preamps are, in my book, absolutely silent enough if you are going to use an additional mixer and/or record mostly dialogue at regular levels.
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Sonidista I suppose I am used to less expensive gear needing help. I have the R4 pro (my boss') and its not bad at all. I want to be able to get nice nature and distant birds without noise though too. I hear people that are happy with the DR-680 pres, but I have no idea how critical they are about sound. The 680 has given me cause for pause with the R-44. But when I see a unit like that with 6 pres, yet costs less than the 4 channel r-44, it makes me think they spent less on pres. But I have no way of knowing. I don't always use a mixer when recording, (I only have a 2 ch MixPre) so a recorder with very quiet pres is high on my list. I also do audio post, and though a recording will sound good at first listen, when you get a quiet speaker, or just a quiet sentence, and you need to turn it up a lot in post - that is where the noise is exposed.

I'd like some samples of an r-44, modded r-44, and a DR-680, recording basically silence, or a quiet sound, then normalized in post to expose just which recorder is more silent. The oade mod is more than just making it quieter though. It's adding a more musical character with the concert mod. Anyway, I'll go with whatever sounds the best, and I really want the DR-680 to sound the best because those extra tracks would come in handy recording a small group of musicians away from the studio. I don't dig that there aren't dedicated knobs for each track, but people say it isn't a big deal...
 
I've got a PMD661 and will add to what has already been said: it has twice the battery capacity of the H4n, is dead simple to operate and will hang from a camera strap. It will take a thump or two in stride as well. If you look, they can be had new for a hair over $500.
 
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