Step by step instructions for laptop setup?

Pascal Parvex

Pascal Parvex

Well-known member
I want to be ready to shoot on the 18th this month, and I will not spend 600 bucks for four minutes of recording time. And for the price of the firestore, I can get a decent notebook.

I found a posting about it, but it was not very clear, why is it best to have an external drive?

Well, what notebook do I need, and how do I set it up? Is there a software I need?
 
pascal... I'm doing the same thing. I'm going with a 15inch powerbook G4 as I prefer Macs and I know that it'll work.. and I already have FCP and all that jazz. I'm sure you can do the samething on a PC.

The reasons you need to use an external drives are usually because the system drive is a slower drive and also maybe only 60 gigs of freespace.. and that will fill up fast.
Also, the more important reason is that you want to have the capturing going through the system but the saving and all that going to the external drive. In addition to the drive, you will need to get somekind of PCMCIA to firewire 800 or 400 drive. On the powerbook, the 800 and 400 are on the same bus.. which gives you problems.. so with the PCMCIA card.. you can have two buses to work with.


Hope this helps... I'm going with the G4 as I can get one now.. and cheap.... and I've already captured from the HVX to a powerbook. We recorded for 60 minutes without a hitch....
 
Great. So, all I need is just a notebook with a 7200 RPM drive to get no hitches? And by the way, Is a viewer MXF viewer software (or any software) included with the HVX?
 
Pascal_Parvex said:
Great. So, all I need is just a notebook with a 7200 RPM drive to get no hitches? And by the way, Is a viewer MXF viewer software (or any software) included with the HVX?
Click to expand...

No, if you are going with a G4 you need this from Robert Lane on the DVinfo.net:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=60199


Robert Lane said:
After 5 days of testing direct capture to the PB here's what I've learned - and the results were a bit surprising.

The capture method was done in 3 "modes" to test all configurations:

Mode 1 - Capture directly to the internal drive only - no external drive connected.

Mode 2 - Capture to an external drive using both on-board FW ports; HVX into FW400 port, External drive out from the FW800 port.

Mode 3 - Capture to an external drive on it's own FW bus using the LaCie PCMCIA FW800 card; HVX into FW400 port, External drive on the LaCie FW800 card port.

Since my project is going to be shot in 720p/30 that's the only camera mode we tested. We used a 10ft FW cable between camera and PB and both camera and PB were powered by their a/c connectors, not battery.

Of all the configurations, Mode 1 and 2 gave the most unexpected results.

In Mode 1 we had a 90% good capture with dropouts occurring mostly at the beginning of a clip. Once the internal drive stabilized the clip seemed to smooth out. It's certainly not a stable capture but it would work as a last resort if nothing else were available - but only for a short run and certainly nothing I'd attempt for a pro production. However, attempting to playback a clip from the timeline caused FCP to become unstable and it always stopped playback reporting dropped frames or worse, caused FCP to crash completely forcing a system reboot. Even with all the preferences set to "low" we could never get a stable playback - from the timeline. If we viewed the clip in the viewer instead it would play but often cause the system to lock-up.

Mode 2 was better - and worse. The capture had a few, really nasty dropouts where the viewer screen was full of bad data blocks, sound clicks and frame stutter. However the clip would play from the timeline, dropouts, clicks and all.

Mode 3 was perfect. No dropouts, no stutter and no sound clicks. Like tape, both the internal and external drives needed to stabilize during the first few seconds of capture, but after that it was smooth sailing.

NOTE: If you playback an HD clip from the timeline in a PB and hear sound clicks from the internal speakers even in "Mode 3" these clicks are not in the actual capture, it's a limitation of Core Audio's capability to handle HD content playback from the timeline in a PB. This is a known issue and Apple is working on a fix.
Click to expand...

Not that I'm having such great results myself yet, but that is due to my own lack of knowledge on this camera and FCP. You need an external HD and a firewire bus card in addition to the FW bus card on the computer because one bus can't handle both input and output at the same time. And you need a seperate HD to record to because even a fast internal HD can't both operate the computer and record in DVCPRO HD at the same time. Robert put it like this, it's like trying to breath in and out at the same time, you are asking the lungs to do two different things at once. Same with one bus on a computer and one hard drive.

David
 
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Here is more from Robert:
Robert Lane said:
I finally have my HVX, but no 8gb P2 cards to go with it; the cards are in short supply (for now) and there are none to have.

Since I can't wait around to see when they become available and the Cineporter being the only true P2 device as an alternative is also not available until probably NAB, I needed a "shoot now" alternative. I just happen to notice that (1) 8gb card is the same price as a new 17" Powerbook, and since the camera doesn't require any cards to send an HD signal out Firewire, that spawned my perfect alternate solution: Capture direct to FCP in the Powerbook.

After days of researching the best hardware options I decided to share my knowledge - here's my setup:

- 17" inch Powerbook w/2gb RAM (don't buy RAM from Apple - see my note about RAM later in this post)
- OWC Mercury Elite Pro Aluminum 500gb FW800 16MB cache external (2 drives in a RAID enclosure)
- (1) 15ft 4 to 6 pin FW400 cable w/Ferrite Cores (see note on Cores later in this post)
- (1) FW400 Repeater
- (1) 15ft 6 to 6 pin FW400 cable w/Ferrite Cores
- LaCie FW800 PCMCIA card
- Xantrex Micro Inverter 400 (for unlimited power for the Powerbook, external drive and camera on location)

Here' the logic for this setup:

- RAM. I put the maximum RAM in the PB so FCP could run as smoothly as possible in dealing with DVCPRO-HD 720p30. However, Apple has always asked a premium for the RAM they supply. The RAM module supplied with the PB was a Micron 512mb module; this module is not monolithic and actually has uneccesary latency in it's throughput. I dumped that slow performing Micron and ordered (2) 1gb Samsung monolithic modules from Motherboards & Upgrades (upgradeit.com) 480-813-6926 - ask for Mike Komar. This RAM actually runs 1.6x times faster than the Micron module did without the latency and the PB and FCP runs much smoother now. NOTE: These monolithic modules cannot be bought off the shelf; the timing is specific to the Apple PB specs so they were matched to the system - and they cost over $150 less than what Apple wanted for the same amount of RAM!!

- External drive: I wanted a decently sized drive to allow all-day shooting or even for the entire project, and migrate between the capture system and the edit system. I also wanted the fastest throughput to avoid any dropouts on the HD content which is why I chose a FW800 drive. At this point I haven't decided if I'll simply actually use the same drive between the two FCP systems or, copy-paste the captured files from one drive to the other. (my edit system has 4 more OWC drives dedicated to FCP). I'll be testing that in the coming days so I'll report back which is a better workflow.

- FW cables & Repeater: My project has very specific requirements and there will be times when the PB will be quite far from the camera - at least 20 feet at times. Initially I was going to use one 30ft cable to connect camera to PB however, my experience with any FW cable regardless of manufacturer is that beyond 10ft there is significant signal degradation (enough to possibly cause dropouts on capture) and a cable that long can also act an an antenna and pick up tons of RF interference, especially in the studio where monitors, power supplies, etc. will be creating a soup of radio emissions. So I opted for (2) 15ft footers with a FW400 repeater between them to keep signal strength up and Ferrite Cores on the ends of both cables to help reduce/choke any RF nasties.

- PCMCIA FW800 Card: What's extremely important to note about the PB (and actually the same applies to a G5 as well) is that both the FW400 & 800 ports live on the same physical bus on the motherboard. Because of the nature of the FW bus, the bus speed is only as fast as the SLOWEST device. The specs on the HVX data record rate is 100mbps, which means that when connected to a FW port it will choke the entire bus down to FW100 speed! The only way to avoid this is to create a separate physical bus, which the LaCie FW800 card does. So the camera gets connected to the built-in FW400 port on the PB, and the external drive goes into the FW800 port on the PCMCIA card - voila! Two distinct FW busses.

- Ferrite Cores: Many of you probably noticed that most DV cameras come with FW cables and a few Ferrite Cores to put on those cables. The JVC HD100 for example, comes with a selection of cores to put around the power supply cable, FW cables and even the XLR cable for the on-camera mic. The reason is simple: All this connectivity is a potential direct path for electronic emissions in the form of radio-frequency interference (RF is the term) to either get in or come out of the camera which could degrade the signal coming out of the camera and into an external capture device, regardless if it's tape or digital media. Ferrite Cores "choke" or in some cases eliminate the RF that travels along the outside of these cables and prevents RF interference from continuing into the camera or your capture device. In point of fact, I've taken this idea and applied it to every cable that is on or around my main G5 edit system for the very same reason - keeping the electronic pathways between devices as "quiet" as possible.

So that takes care of the hardware selection and setup, but there's more that needs to be done in software so the PB can run as efficiently as possible during capture to prevent dropouts. Here's what else do to:

Go into System Preferences and:

- Turn off BlueTooth.
- Turn off the Airport.
- Turn off Screen Saver.
- In Energy Saver: A) NEVER put the system to sleep; B) UN-CHECK "put hard-disks to sleep when possible"; C) UN-CHECK "wake when modem detects ring"; D) UN-CHECK both items for "reduce brightness of display...".
- In Monitors: UN-CHECK "automatically adjust brightness".
- Bluetooth services: UN-CHECK all sharing.
- In Software Update: UN-CHECK "check for updates...".
- Download a the free app, "Tinker Tool" and use the "Disable Dashboard" feature (there are widgets that will try to call out to a network connection to update themselves in the background. They are small apps, but I don't want them breathing even a whiff of the RAM for FCP).
- Under Sharing: Don't share anything and turn off the Firewall (if it's on)
- Under Security: Turn off "File Vault" (if you're using it). Using this can potentially cause project corruption in FCP.
- Under Print & Fax: UN-CHECK "receive faxes...". Turn off any printer sharing.
- Under Quicktime: UN-CHECK "check for updates..."

That's the cleanest, most optimized setup you can get for a Powerbook.

Here's the cost comparison:

(2) 8gb P2 cards = $4500 (if you pay tax it's more like $4700) and they can only be used for the HVX.

(UPDATE: Just a few hours after I posted this, I learned Panasonic dropped the price of the 8gb P2 card to $1400! The Powerbook option is no longer more cost effective, but it's still more versatile than just P2 alone.)

My setup was just over $3k, here's the vendors used:

- Powerbook: Frys Electronics, $2199
- External Drive: OWC Computing, $399
- RAM: Motherboards and Upgrades (see above notes), $320
- LaCie FW800 PCMCIA card: OWC Computing, $80
- FireWire cables/repeater: www.fwdepot.com $150 appx
- Power Inverter: Frys Electronics, $50
- Extra TDK Z-CAT Ferrite Cores: Digikey, $25 appx.

You can obviously spend hundreds less by:

- Using a 15" inch Powerbook
- Using less RAM
- Using a smaller external HD
- Not using long cables/repeater
- Not using an inverter (not everybody is going to do location work).

Regardless what your hardware setup is, be absolutely sure you follow the software setup listed above so that you don't have things running in the background that can potentially compete for resources during the capture process.

This setup is NOT a run-and-gun setup obviously, nor is it a replacement option for a Cineporter, but it does give a wealth of possibilites and versatility that you just can't get with only P2 cards.
Click to expand...

David
 
I am trying to get as close to Robert's set up as I can.
I have a 15" powerbook 1.5 Gz , but it will not accept the RAM that Robert mentioned ( i called the person he suggested).
i will get the Max 2 GIG and the best RAM I can find.

I am definately getting a PC card with a firewire port. That makes alot of sense.
However if you only plan to use firewire 400 drives then I suspect its OK to get a cheaper card than the LaCie ( 800 & USB). OWC has one for $20.
I've been trying to figure out if that would make a difference, so don't trust my word over Robert's though.

I was recently told by people at Granite Digital not to use repeaters because that would screw up the timing of the signal.
Anybody else have an opinion about that?
BTW they make what look like great firewire cables and hot swap drive enclosures. They say 32' cables would work and that they've tested them for similar applications, but I don't know that it is the same application.
Actually they are near me so maybe I'll visit them & test it myself.

http://www.granitedigital.com/
http://www.granitedigital.com/catalog/pg18_firewirecables.htm

- I am currently having a big problem with this set-up though. See my other post on this Tech forum:

"Can't seem to capture 24P thru firewire"

I've done this a bunch before, but it seems like something must have changed in my set-up. (Unless I was imagining it?)

Suggestions very welcome. Scary that it is this easy to screw up.
 
God, this sucks. Must it be so complicated? Right now I'm thinking about getting a 4 MB P2 card, and a dumping device. What is the cheapest dumping device, that is also available in Switzerland?

An how do you connect a P2 card to any other device? And where do I get a cheap P2 card with shipping before the 18th?
 
Anyone have any advice on the PC Notebook side. I'm not a big fan of Macs...

Besides, for those of us editing on PCs, we would have to buy FCP in addition to whatever editor we're already using, just to capture with...not really cost-effective.
 
I'm experimenting with the PC side of things now. Current setup is not working, and I can't yet determine if it's a hardware issue, a software issue, or both:

Pentium 4 2.0 ghz with 512MB RAM
Avid Xpress Pro HD 5.2.3
HVX200 (no P2)

I'm trying to do a direct capture, but no mode works, not even 480i 24pa. When I hook up my DVX it works fine, but not with the HVX. Sometimes I can get Avid to capture a few frames (even in 720 mode) but no more than 1 or 2 seconds.

I realize my laptop is slightly below recommended spec, but it should still capture fine in SD mode!

Anyone else with better luck?
 
So then this is the list what I need:

- A notebook, can be a slow one with 1.5 GHz Centrino, right, as it is only there as power source and interface
- The notebook has to have two (2) Firewire ports. Or need those two port to have a different IRQ?
- An external Firewire drive

I would go for the P2 with battery powered Firewire harddrive, but I could not find a dealer with P2 cards in stock. Are they anywhere in stock? Im not going to pay those nearly 800 bucks on ebay...
 
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FCP capture

FCP capture

Well I have the set up as described by Robert Lane. Separate FW800 going
to a G-RAID 500 GB. I had originally purchased a 30' firewire cable to capture
and it works with DVCPro 50. Problem is 30' seems to somehow be a bit too long
for the amount of information. I knew it might have interference problems, but
thought it would work anyways. Oops. I got it to work, but it was sporadic. I recorded DVCPro 50 in the field with a laptop on battery power. On a trail in the snow. Laptop and HVX performed well. The disk speed of my G4 1.67 ghz and 1.5 ram was plenty fast to handle the DVCPro 50. Looks really nice. Downconverting was a breeze. Also have been shooting some green screen stuff. I can't imagine going with any other cameara. The flexibility is so powerful for someone like me who is lending my time to a variety of student projects. I tried shooting with laptop on "never sleep mode" using a program called sleepless and putting it in a sidebag and going into the HVX. Drops frames on 720/24P but recording DVCPro50 with a laptop in a bag would work. I wish I had a 7200 rpm drive in my laptop as that seems like a limiting step with the HD formats. For interview situations in a controlled setting - the HVX to laptop is a great way to go.

Rick
 
rfxs said:
Well I have the set up as described by Robert Lane. Separate FW800 going
to a G-RAID 500 GB. I had originally purchased a 30' firewire cable to capture
and it works with DVCPro 50. Problem is 30' seems to somehow be a bit too long
for the amount of information. I knew it might have interference problems, but
thought it would work anyways. Oops. I got it to work, but it was sporadic. I recorded DVCPro 50 in the field with a laptop on battery power. On a trail in the snow. Laptop and HVX performed well. The disk speed of my G4 1.67 ghz and 1.5 ram was plenty fast to handle the DVCPro 50. Looks really nice. Downconverting was a breeze. Also have been shooting some green screen stuff. I can't imagine going with any other cameara. The flexibility is so powerful for someone like me who is lending my time to a variety of student projects. I tried shooting with laptop on "never sleep mode" using a program called sleepless and putting it in a sidebag and going into the HVX. Drops frames on 720/24P but recording DVCPro50 with a laptop in a bag would work. I wish I had a 7200 rpm drive in my laptop as that seems like a limiting step with the HD formats. For interview situations in a controlled setting - the HVX to laptop is a great way to go.

Rick
Click to expand...


Hang on.... you're shooting with an HVX200 streaming into a laptop in a sidebag?

I'm just trying to clear about this (I've never owned a laptop... thinking of getting one) because I assume you'd have to press "record" on the laptop rather than on the HVX.

I'm inferring from your comments you can start and stop recording on your laptop using the record button on the HVX? Kinda like a firestore?
 
No such luck. Have to press the button on the laptop then close the lid and
put it in the bag. More of a pain in the ass than anything, but an option for DVCPro50.

Rick
 
I think I will go with the Firestore FS-100. It is expensive, but as Panasonic is backing it up, it should be reliable. And for 20$ a minute, it is about ten times cheaper than P2. Not to mention that you won't be able to record more than 8 minutes in best quality compared to the 100 minutes of the Firestore FS-100.

So, on the 18th this month, I will be shooting on Mini-DV.
 
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