Steadicam Pilot is Iso-elastic? Really?

B

ben1000

Active member
Howdy...

I have an EX-1 flying on a Steadicam Pilot. I have read that this arm is supposed to be 'iso-elastic', which I've read means that it stays where you put in vertically in space.

Well, I have the arm trimmed so that the weight of the sled keeps the arms basically horizontal when hands-off. Right in the middle of their range.

I would assume that if I raise or lower the arm, it is supposed to stay basically where I leave it, but I find that if I raise it, it wants to lower back down to center, and if I lower it, it wants to raise back up. To keep it in either an upper or lower position requires constant effort on my part.

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks.

-Ben
 
To the best of my knowledge the flyer and pilot arms are not completely iso-elastic. I have a flyer and it behaves as your describing. Must hold in position. If I know I'm going to be staying at one position I just trim the spring tension to that position usually.

I believe the G50 and G70 arms are the only completely iso-elastic arms Steadicam makes, although I could be wrong.
 
I don't understand, Jeff...

The Tiffen Website clearly states for the Pilot:

The Iso-Elastic™ arm is a two-section, articulated, design that can be adjusted while supporting the camera. With this patented, unique design, the Steadicam operator can smoothly and effortlessly raise or lower the arm throughout its 28 inch boom range. The iso-elastic arm is also non-reactive – improving vertical stability and control in all operating conditions, from lock-offs to fast running shots over rough terrain.

... and then lists as features:

Frictionless, Silky-Smooth Iso-Elastic Performance

I understand some of the bigger Steadicam rigs are truley 'isoelastic', in that they'll stay basically at the height you put them. Can anyone comment on this? And why Tiffen would mislead if the Pilot is not truley IsoElastic?

Thanks

Ben
 
The reason why the Pilot, Flyer, and other systems are labeled as Iso-Elastic is that they are, to a significant degree! As someone who has access to, and has tried to fly a knockoff rig, the difference between my Merlin arm and the Magiqcam arm that I've used is huge. Instead of requiring a pound or two of force, as the Merlin does, the Magiqcam arm requires such significant force that I simply cannot see being able to use it after having owned a Steadicam arm for a few years. Imagine that when booming up, above a certain point, you're holding a good portion of the weight of the rig. The Pilot/Merlin arm feels effortless in comparison.

So, all in all, it is isoelastic, just not 100%. It performs quite well, and the amount of force should be pretty minimal to hold a boom. I think that the amount that the Merlin/Pilot arm has is quite nice, and works well for the operator.
 
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sounds like

sounds like

tomthemacman said:
The reason why the Pilot, Flyer, and other systems are labeled as Iso-Elastic is that they are, to a significant degree! As someone who has access to, and has tried to fly a knockoff rig, the difference between my Merlin arm and the Magiqcam arm that I've used is huge. Instead of requiring a pound or two of force, the Magiqcam arm requires such significant force that I simply cannot see being able to use it after having owned a Steadicam arm for a few years. Imagine that when booming up, above a certain point, you're holding a good portion of the weight of the rig. The Pilot/Merlin arm feels effortless in comparison.

So, all in all, it is isoelastic, just not 100%. It performs quite well, and the amount of force should be pretty minimal to hold a boom. I think that the amount that the Merlin/Pilot arm has is quite nice, and works well for the operator.
Click to expand...

it sounds like you may need to add some weight to your sled. Is the arm angled up just a smidge when you are hands off and balanced?

i run a pilot with an ex3 and my rig is maxed out ... i.e. almost fully weighted down with almost no trim left for the arm.

try adding more weight.
 
My rig? Or are you talking to ben1000? My Merlin arm is plenty iso-elastic for me, and I run anywhere between 10 and 15 pounds of sled weight. It requires very little force.

The other arm, the Magiqcam, isn't iso-elastic at all, but it's not mine, and I never use it, so it doesn't matter much to me. It's just in the video lab that I work at, so I've given it a fly a couple of times. I was simply using it as a comparison to explain why even though the Merlin/Pilot arms aren't 100% Iso-Elastic, they still are remarkable.
 
Howdy.

My rig is almost maxed out. No more weight is required. It's also pretty well balanced and trimmed.

My arms sit around horizontal when I let go, not slightly up. While I understand that slightly up is the best for making adjustments, I haven't read that they should be there 'at rest' for any reason.

...and my original beef continued... If it's only 'partially iso, or even mostly iso, then say so. Don't blatently advertise an 'iso-elastic' arm, when it is only so to 'a significan't degree'. Steadicam is a great brand...why tarnish it with false advertising.

-Ben
 
Rader: We've got an EX3 and are considering the Pilot. How heavy is the overall rig? Anything you would do differently if you had to do it again?

If money was no object, I'd have an EX1 (with wide angle lens) and a Pilot, and then our EX3 for tripod use. But then I have no experience with using a Steadicam, so maybe it's easy to switch the camera to tripod and back again while on a shoot. Dunno.....
 
Hi, Mitch...

Just an FYI: What you're doing is called 'hijacking a thread', by changing the subject. You may find that you don't get nearly as many responsed as if you started a new thread that everyone could see and could participate in, with a subject line that indicates what the thread is about.

Just an FYI to help you get the best responses from others in your situation.

Best,

Ben
 
ben1000 said:
Hi, Mitch...

Just an FYI: What you're doing is called 'hijacking a thread', by changing the subject. You may find that you don't get nearly as many responsed as if you started a new thread that everyone could see and could participate in, with a subject line that indicates what the thread is about.

Just an FYI to help you get the best responses from others in your situation.

Best,

Ben
Click to expand...

well if we're going to be anal about it, you may notice that you posted a steadicam question in the sony xdcam ex section....
the fact that you are flying an ex1 is irrelevant.

Just an FYI to help you get the best responses from others in your situation.
 
MitchLewis said:
Good point. Sorry. My mistake. Thanks Ben.
Click to expand...

mitch,

if i were starting over, and i may... i would get a flyer. I have seen your posts here and elsewhere and i know what gear you are working with. what if you dedided one day to fly your 3 with the ultimate and zacuto? you would wish you had a bigger arm to hold up that sled. the same way you decided to go with the ultimate to avoid limitations down the road... that is the advice i am giving you now.

ben,

whether the arm is 100% or 99%... we would be splitting hairs to debate that... my point is that the pilot does a better job in it's arena than it's competitors. I assumed since i had an ex1 and sold it here... that you may be running light and thought i might be able to help you with my limited expertise, but it sounds like you have the sled under control and this thread is more philosophical that practical. or i am wrong and apologize in advance.

i read many threads and learn alot from most of them... sometimes i find an answer where i'd least expect to find one. I know the forum has rules... but there are plenty of moderators around to enforce them.

sorry if i went slightly off topic.
 
Just to clarify the iso-elastic function vs. Ride function...

My rig has a G-50 arm that has an additional feature called "ride". This allows for the operator to set the tension/float of the arm so if I pull the arm up 1 foot from level, it offers 0 resistance, as if the arm was sitting full load. If I let the rig go the sled will stay there.


This ride function is offered at much more expensive rigs (10K arms and above), the iso elastic properties of the flyer or similar rigs just allow you to feel "less" resitance from the arm when booming. Not the "ride" function.

In comparison, if ever try using a movecam system, it is a workout to boom even a few inches.

Hope this helps.
 
Howdy...

Yes, I'm speaking philosophically more than practically. I don't think it's 99% compared to 100%, I think it's maybe 50% compared to 100%.... and I'd just prefer that it was advertised that way. Why not say '50%' or '75%' isoelasic... so that at least people know what they're getting.

Cheez > I defer all the anal-ness in this thread to you :-)

-Ben
 
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