Status at DiscoveryHD between HPX300 and EX1

S

steinkaf

Member
Hello,

i have read about the status on DiscoveryHD and other network´s.
i don´t understand why have the HPX300 with AVCIntra 100mb and 422 only have bronze status and the EX1 and EX3 with 35mb and 420 have silver status?

i have both, but do not understand that.


p.s. sorry my English
 
Good question, steinkaf. Probably politics - or straight under-the-table cash exchange. Who knows why networks make the choices they do...?
 
Are there any 1/3 inch chip cameras in the silver or gold category? I have not looked at the list in a while and have not seen the updated list, back in they day they said all 1/3 inch chip cams would be bronze, dunno, it could have changed in recent months.
 
As a technician at a public broadcaster I would prefer any EX camera over the hpx300/301 models. For sure the the AVC-I 100 codec stores perfectly sharp single frames but the noise in certain picture areas even at a gain of -3dB is much too high. Haven't you got the dancing black dots, especially in high contrast (i.e. sharp) areas of the picture? I have never seen such a noise on any EX camera - even with +6dB gain.

In my opinion the black dots are caused by the signal processing as pure sensor noise would be colored - and I don't think that current 1/3" sensors are that noisy! Maybe Panasonic will have a fix for this in the future but currently I would prefer any Sony EX model. The same observation was made by BBC R&D: http://thebrownings.name/WHP034/pdf/WHP034-ADD38_Panasonic_HPX301.pdf

Deti
 
@ Barry

Sorry. i have seen before one year a PDF from Discovery, but i don´t know the link, with the information about the EX1 and 3 is silver.
For the HPX300 i could find an original document but in all forum´s the spoken about they is bronze.
 
Lots of people talk about what made silver and what got bronze, but I haven't seen proof. For a while people were talking about the XLH1 being accepted as Silver, but it never was. So that's why I say -- don't believe what people claim, until we see the document ourselves.

As far as I know, no 1/3" camera has ever been rated higher than Bronze.

As for black dots, those were a problem on the earliest HPX300s, but I thought that'd been fixed long, long ago?
 
deti said:
but the noise in certain picture areas even at a gain of -3dB is much too high. Haven't you got the dancing black dots, especially in high contrast (i.e. sharp) areas of the picture? I have never seen such a noise on any EX camera - even with +6dB gain.
Click to expand...

I have just finished a quick edited, low budget, low light film and haven't seen any noise or dancing black dots.

here the raw footage edit : http://vimeo.com/8763309

Cheers.
guillaume
 
Just did a 1 week shoot covering a surfboat marathon...

http://www.georgebassmarathon.com.au/

I shot with 3 cameras... the 302/172 and a sony SR12 in a water housing...

Anther team was covering the event on a EX3...

We uploaded to the TV stations daily for National News Reports... which we're picked up on all the major broadcasters in Oz plus some European nations picked up the stories...

Although I had not control of the final content that went to air.. I noticed that over the 7 days I was covering the gig the stations never used 1 frame of footage that came from the EX3's...

Why...

Because the EX3 image is just so flat when you compare the same stuff shot on the 300...

I tried to get the guys to ramp up their saturation settings but they just would not budge...

Screen Grabs - guess which is the EX3..

Cheers
 

Attachments

  • Picture 2.jpg
    Picture 2.jpg
    65.7 KB · Views: 0
I had the black dots problem when I first got the camera, one of the first
ones. After updates and tweaking the settings ( the default settings suck),
the dots went away. Now I get great footage.
The EX cameras have a cleaner looking picture but are not as tweakable
in post. I think the H1 is even more clean than the EX.
You can get a great picture eith the 300 you just have to set
it up right.
 
There are only three things that matter in my opinion:

The Client

Aside from bronze or silver status. A lot of clients will not notice the difference between a 1/3" or 2/3" camera. If you invest in proper lighting and grip you can get good results and your clients will be happy. And for the high end clients that care about image quality; use a high end camera.

Ergonomics

There are a lot of camcorders that produce great images, take the EX1 for instance. I agree there is less noise with the EX1 compared to the HPX300. But try shooting with an EX1 for a full day without a rig. For me this has proven very difficult. And I am happy to trade a little noise for the ability to shoot steady all day. Also the pro options on the HPX300 (dtap, highrose, 3/8 mount) have made my life a lot easier.

The Image

As a DP this is my main concern and in this area there is always a better option...
 
Lez said:
Just did a 1 week shoot covering a surfboat marathon...

http://www.georgebassmarathon.com.au/

I shot with 3 cameras... the 302/172 and a sony SR12 in a water housing...

Anther team was covering the event on a EX3...

We uploaded to the TV stations daily for National News Reports... which we're picked up on all the major broadcasters in Oz plus some European nations picked up the stories...

Although I had not control of the final content that went to air.. I noticed that over the 7 days I was covering the gig the stations never used 1 frame of footage that came from the EX3's...

Why...

Because the EX3 image is just so flat when you compare the same stuff shot on the 300...

I tried to get the guys to ramp up their saturation settings but they just would not budge...

Screen Grabs - guess which is the EX3..

Cheers
Click to expand...

I have agree, I have shot an event with a EX1 and HPX300 and the client consistently choose the hpx300 shots.
 
GaryNattrass said:
I havent seen dancing dots on my 301 and the blacks on this recent commercial show it:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1o1aE9OkHw
Click to expand...

Ohh I have! And as a camera operator (who also edits) HPX & P2 still wins hands down over any EX1.

In fact, flare bugs me far more on this cam than noise you can only see with your nose touching a TV - but then I could always have spent more to make both a non issue or fumbled trying to op an EX1 :thumbsup:

D
 
Lez said:
Just did a 1 week shoot covering a surfboat marathon...

http://www.georgebassmarathon.com.au/

I shot with 3 cameras... the 302/172 and a sony SR12 in a water housing...

Anther team was covering the event on a EX3...

We uploaded to the TV stations daily for National News Reports... which we're picked up on all the major broadcasters in Oz plus some European nations picked up the stories...

Although I had not control of the final content that went to air.. I noticed that over the 7 days I was covering the gig the stations never used 1 frame of footage that came from the EX3's...

Why...

Because the EX3 image is just so flat when you compare the same stuff shot on the 300...

I tried to get the guys to ramp up their saturation settings but they just would not budge...

Screen Grabs - guess which is the EX3..

Cheers
Click to expand...

I have not used the HPX-300, but have used the HPX-500, HMC-150 & the EX-1.

I really don't want to cause trouble but once again, I see the EX-1/3 camera being thrown under the bus based upon user error or setup rather than reality.

Looking at the two frames presented shows they both are out of joint.

The EX-3 frame looks nothing like the EX-1 images I see. The camera is clearly setup way flat and under saturated. But I would guess that shade of red is probably closer to the true magenta red of the guy's wetsuit.

The 300 frame is way over saturated along with the blacks being quite crushed. The wet suite has an orangy red which is quite common with Panasonic cameras.

My point in posting is that it is quite documented that the EX-1/3 cameras are remarkable and this Sony vs Panasonic thing is beyond old, it is just untrue.

What I know is that when I put the EX on the same timeline with the HPX-500 (both with Nano Flash recordings) and the HMC-150, the EX-1 looks every bit as good. (I have the EX-1 setup the match the HPX-500's colors).

The EX series really need to be setup properly to get good images, but so do most cameras.

Happy you like the HPX-300, just don't see the need to drag down others to demonstrate.

O.k, start slinging the arrows!
 
Bassman2003 said:
O.k, start slinging the arrows!
Click to expand...

Should be no need for arrow slinging at all. The EX-3 in this photo was improperly set up unless it was set up for color grading in post. And if the delivered image from the HPX looked like photo here, I don't know how it passed broadcast. You can see the color bleed even in this small photo. And if that's happening in an online photograph, there is NO WAY it would pass on scopes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top