Starting from scratch Canon, Nikon or Sony mounts for Sony FS100/ FS700

H

Hanad

Member
Hi guys I was wondering what would be the best option for someone who has no lenses. What would you recommend to start with? I am planning to get a sony FS700 and I want to know which lens mounts would be best for it. I watched the video 4 days with the sony FS700 and I am leaning more to the sony Alpha mounts, because of the phase detection and will have to buy the LEA2 adapter if I want it. But at the same time I was thinking canon because it is available everywhere and when working with other people it will be easier to use their lenses. And 'nikon lenses I heard are good for video as they more manual controls such as aperture etc. Confused :S
 
There is no answer..

Sony lenses will get that AF - but they seem pretty horrible to manual focus - also they are a niche market with no used base and questionable resale value

Canon lenses wont AF, have horrible manual focus.. but a load of clowns bought them to trick out their 5ds so they are owned by a lot of people, and a lot of other people put a lot of effort into trying to make them work

Most still lenses are designed to cover Full frame and to clear a swinging mirror - which means they are 50% slower or heavier bigger and/or more expensive than they need to be to cover the S35 chip

The really interesting lenses are ones that dont cover the Fullframe chip or have space to cover a swinging mirror come from non SLR stills cameras.. - Voigtlander and Leica

There seems to be only one other company that has realised what mirrorless brings to lens design.. SLR magic cheick thier Tstop to cost ratio!

Nikon make fantastic lenses.. that focus the wrong way .. IMO you are ALL Nikon, or NO Nikon - any other approach will bend your brain as you try to follow focus

In summary I think for RnG you need one lens Sony with maximum 'auto ness' - this is the Kit lens or maybe another Sony lens

I would add to that with a selection of used manual glass Voigtlander, Leica, Contax, Olympus, CanonFD and maybe Nikon....

IMO

S
 
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Here we see the Canon 50 designed to clear a mirror and cover a fullframe chip looking bloated compared to some lenses designed for mirrorless cameras..

01.JPG
 
I have both Canon L lenses ( I was one of those people that bought too many Canon lenses :( as well as several Zeiss ZF lenses 50mm f1.4 and 85mm f1.4 which I use with adaptors

They both have drawbacks. The Canon lenses don't manual focus as well obviously, but the L series are not that bad as the focus throw is about 180 degrees. But no hard stops, but it doesn't bother me as much as a lot of people. Also, the Nikon focusing the other way isn't that bad to me at least. I've become used to switching my brain.

The Zeiss ZF 50mm f1.4 and the Zeiss 85mm f1.4 have great mechanics and long focus throw, but the chromatic aberrations / purple fringe at f1.4 to f2 is horrible when compared to the Canon L, which have much lower CAs than Zeiss. Owning both, I prefer the Canon IQ just because seeing purple edges on light sources drives me nuts, and it's very noticeable on Zeiss lenses.

Zeiss does have a really cool and interesting color rendition. It's very Zeiss and unique.

I almost got a Zeiss 35mm f1.4, but the fringing was so bad at f1.4 to f2, I returned it.

I also have some older Nikon Nikkor manual lenses. They have great mechanics, but seem to have lower contrast and more purple fringing when compared to my modern Canons Ls.

When shot wide open to f2 (which I do fairly often), the Canon's are generally cleaner because of the lower CAs.

I've heard Zeiss's new lenses such as the new 25mm f2 and the their Macro lenses (50mm and 100mm), they've made a big effort to combat the strong CA and purple fringing, and they are very clean. But the Zeiss Macros because of their weird focusing, don't really work with follow focus units and they extend really far so they don't work with Matte boxes.

Basically, unless you have serious cash, you are stuck with still lenses. To me, once you get used to the issues, you can make great work. I don't even really think about it anymore. I just use them as for the most part, they work fine.

I think the best lenses I own for my soon to be FS700 are

1) Tokina 11-16 f2.8. This is a great lens. Nothing wrong it except short focus throw, but its super wide so it doesn't matter much
2) Canon 17-55 f2.8. For 1.5x crops, this is a fantastic zoom. Focus thrown only 90 degrees
3) Canon 100mm L Macro. Great lens with IS and decent focus thrown at 180
4) Canon 70-200mm L IS 2. Great, great lens with decent focus throw at 180 and incredible image. Great for portraits.
5) Zeiss 85mm f1.4. Great lens and mechanics, just try to avoid shooting it wide open as it's purple fringe city. Also, the minimum focus distance of 1 meter is inhibiting.
 
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Wow thanks guys. Yes I was planning to get the fs700 with the tokian 11-16 f2.8, samyang 35m 1.4 and the kit lens. But they don't come in emount yet, so what adapter should I use? A nikon to emount, Canon to emount or Sony to emount adapter? I am a bit confused on what I should invest in...maybe the cheapest adapter? Oh and thanks Morgan I will look into Lecica and Voigtlander, does anyone know if there as an adapter for those out yet?
 
I went with nikon. Easy to adjust aperture (don't need electronic contention) TONS of old manual focus nikon lenses out there for very cheap that are VERY GOOD. I use the tokina 11-16 and tamron 17-50 with a novoflex adapter (adjusts aperture without aperture ring) and they work fantastic. Along with a few prime lenses including a 50mm zeiss ZF, nikons are great. If I want auto focus/more of an ENG setup, I have the kit lens for that, it works great for run and gun. Thats just my opinion thought, many others will tell you canon or sony alpha, but its really what your preference is and what lenses you might already have.
 
I buy in canon mount for different reasons:

- Focus on the right side (my brain can't focus nikon)
- Versatility, I can use my lenses on FSxxx, F3, AF100, DSLR, C300, REDs, name it.
- Better resale value and wider selection than Alpha lenses
- Stabilisation available with smart adapter.

This being said, my favorite lenses are my Rokinon primes (in canon mount) because of there real mechanical focus ring, well damped, lot of rotation, unlike the canon primes. If Samyang/Rokinon can build a 50mm, the set will be very great.

And the 17-55 f2.8 IS is so sweet with the metabones adapter!
 
Hanad said:
Wow thanks guys. Yes I was planning to get the fs700 with the tokian 11-16 f2.8, samyang 35m 1.4 and the kit lens. But they don't come in emount yet, so what adapter should I use? A nikon to emount, Canon to emount or Sony to emount adapter? I am a bit confused on what I should invest in...maybe the cheapest adapter? Oh and thanks Morgan I will look into Lecica and Voigtlander, does anyone know if there as an adapter for those out yet?
Click to expand...

Tokina 11-16 f2.8 comes in A-mount (and would work with LAE2 adapter). Samyang 35m 1.4 also comes in A-mount would work with LAEA2

However, yf you were planning to use AF with Tokina 11-16 , I think that that is a screw driven lens. The AF will be noisy. For AF what you need are lenses that have SSM (HSM is Sigma's terminology, or USD or PZD in Tamron's terminology).

There is also Sony/Zeiss 16-35mm F2.8 SSM, but that's an expensive full-frame lens ($2000). And the full-frame lenses are overkill for a crop sensor like FS700.

Just a quick look, there is also Sigma 10-20 F3.5 EX DC HSM ($649)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=SI102035S&N=0


If you are are looking for any A-mount lens (there are thousands of these), the answer is dyxum website:

All zoom lenses ever made for A-mount
http://www.dyxum.com/lenses/results.asp?IDLensType=3

All fixed lenses ever made for A-mount
http://www.dyxum.com/lenses/results.asp?IDLensType=1

All macro lenses on A-mount
http://www.dyxum.com/lenses/results.asp?IDLensType=2
 
morgan_moore said:
There is no answer..

Sony lenses will get that AF - but they seem pretty horrible to manual focus - also they are a niche market with no used base and questionable resale value
Click to expand...

I beg to differ .. Look at the prices on ebay on A-mount lenses and compare it to retail prices. The retail prices are pretty close to used prices on ebay.
 
evilthought said:
Tokina 11-16 f2.8 comes in A-mount (and would work with LAE2 adapter). Samyang 35m 1.4 also comes in A-mount would work with LAEA2

However, yf you were planning to use AF with Tokina 11-16 , I think that that is a screw driven lens. The AF will be noisy. For AF what you need are lenses that have SSM (HSM is Sigma's terminology, or USD or PZD in Tamron's terminology).
Click to expand...

Here is Tokina 11-16 F2.8


http://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Tokina-AT-X-116-PRO-DX-11-16-F2.8_lens561.html

as you see on the site, it's a screw driven lens, but still it's in A-mount. Even if you use it as manual focus lens, you can still control the aperture from the camera (using Lea2), and the lens can talk to camera and pass correct metadata.

and Samyang 24mm F1.4 ED in A-mount

http://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Samyang-24mm-F1.4-ED-AS-UMC_lens654.html

do check http://www.dyxum.com/lenses/index.asp

you will probably find that the lens already exists in A-mount.

And every A-mount lens (even the old lenses from 1980s) should work with LAEA2
 
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evilthought said:
I beg to differ .. Look at the prices on ebay on A-mount lenses and compare it to retail prices.
Click to expand...

Im looking at the (10yr+) long game. Canon and Nikon lens systems are way more established than Sony.

For example the new BMD - how would you adapt Sony lenses to it?

--

Hanad - my picture shows voigtlander lenses on an NEX5 - so yes adapters exist

--

Jean "- Versatility, I can use my (canon) lenses on FSxxx, F3, AF100, DSLR, C300, REDs, name it."

I think this is true of any lens that can be adapted to canon .. nikon .. (contax?)

===

Hanad

I would make one suggestion - forget the internet - manual focus is very neccesary and very personal - I would get into a shop or hang out with some shooters - and feel some of these lenses

As for the used market you need to feel individual lenses - I have for example 2 nikkor 85/2 lenses - one is too heavy to focus - the other is not
Another Example, I have a nikkor 28/2.8E which is light to focus and a 28/2 nikkor manual that is heavy to focus - Id use the first lense for RnG or filming a fight, the second for filming Drama of the period kind..

Another thought.. personally I really dislike changing aperture using the wheel on the Sony Bodies - the wheel is unpleasant plastic, poorly placed (I focus right handed on the shoulder) and slow to react, I love grabbing a real aperture ring, or using the twizzle wheel on a 5d, but the sony control.. yuk

Good luck

S
 
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morgan_moore said:
Im looking at the (10yr+) long game. Canon and Nikon lens systems are way more established than Sony.
Click to expand...

The Minolta's A-mount ( 1985) is slightly older than Canon's EF mount (1987), so it's been around for 27 years.

I agree though the future of A-mount depends very much on Sony's still cameras success. Sony will need to be far more aggressive with their upcoming full-frame cameras.

Sony just released $12,000 500mm F4 --

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/845555-REG/Sony_SAL500F40G_500mm_f_4_0_G_Lens.html

so I don't think they plan to give up on A-mount anytime soon
 
Yep on paper sony are getting a pro lens set together that could work fro the pro stills shooter (the driver of the used lens market)

Currently I dont know any working stills shooters who use Sony or used Mintola

S
 
Morgan mentioned that Sony A lenses are difficult to manual focus, that may be true of some but the 1635ZA and the 2470ZA have great MF feeling. They have soft stops meaning you can feel the end of the range but push beyond (helps with torque against the lens mount with a FF). They're 2.8 constant and generally have an exceptional image. There's also an 85 f1.4 (which i have) and a 135 f1.8 (which i want). Both of these are older style focus, not the SSM of the zooms. I need to save up for the 70200 SSM as well, although it's white! It will ruin my look :)

Another range of wonderful glass is the older Contax Zeiss manual focus lenses, i have several including the 85 f1.4, a number of zooms etc,. They are pretty lightweight, great MF feeling and great quality.

Perhaps Canon with the metabones but when i had lots of canon kit the MF put me off right away, the image quality of the good lenses really is good.

Some of the newer e mounts look interesting. the 50mm and 24mm look good.

Finally it's possible to adapt some wonderful old rangefinder lenses for some really unique rendering.

cheers
Paul
 
paulcurtis said:
a 135 f1.8 (which i want). Both of these are older style focus, not the SSM of the zooms. I need to save up for the 70200 SSM as well, although it's white! It will ruin my look :)
cheers
Paul
Click to expand...

There is also this 135mm F2.8 (T-stop F4.5) lens that is manual focus only.

http://www.the135stf.net/

http://www.photozone.de/sony-alpha-aps-c-lens-tests/390-sony_135_28

It's a pretty unique, primarily made for smooth out-of-focus blur. The focus ring is smooth, and the STF has a dedicated aperture control ring which allows the aperture steplessly between T/4.5 and T/6.7 .

If the choice is just between Canon & Nikon, the Canon lenses do have the advantage that with the Metabones adapter they have a working image stabilization. I don't see the point of starting from scratch with Nikon lenses --- unless Metabones makes a real adapter that powers Nikon's VR lenses.
 
Wow thanks evilthought. I was leaning more towards the Amount because of the 4 days video, it was amazing how the LAEA2 adapter and lens handled the slow motion. the phase detection was awesome. I am leaning more towards it now. Erm but Nikon seems good as well as eheath was saying there are tons of old nikkor lenses. I was also thinking of buying a Minolta 70-210mm f/4.0 beercan lens as it is cheap and a great manual lens for evening/night shoots. I hope its in Alpha mount. I think one thing I should invest in is an evf because of the awkward lcd placement. Was thinking of Zacuto, but then the new Alphatron EVF looks very tempting, only down side is it will cost @1100 euros...Dunno if there is a external recorder like the atomos samurai with evf capabilities, that would be perfect! instead of having so many little devices floating around your head as you record :P
Thanks guys your advice has been so great, I am still thinking of nikon or sony alpha but might go with the alpha. only thing I am concerened about if there are adapters from alpha to nikon/canon cameras just in case for the future...
 
Hanad said:
I was also thinking of buying a Minolta 70-210mm f/4.0 beercan lens as it is cheap and a great manual lens for evening/night shoots. I hope its in Alpha mount..
Click to expand...

Yes, that's A-mount lens and it's usually on ebay for under $200

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw...odkw=Minolta++70-210mm+F4&_osacat=0&_from=R40

Two or three years ago it used to be under $100 (even under $50 before that), but now the prices are slightly up due to all the hype


It's a screw-driven lens, though, so the AF is going to be slow and noisy, but as manual focus lens, it should be fine.

There are several variants of Minolta 70-210 .. but the "beercan" is the one with constant "F4" only. The other variants aren't as good

http://www.dyxum.com/lenses/detail.asp?idlens=48
 
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