Star Wars: The Force Awakens

I was wondering if y'all could tell me how you felt when you saw it happen, so that maybe I can know it vicariously through you and try to guess how I would have felt if I were surprised. It still hit me emotionally, but it's hard to separate those emotions from the sadness I have in having that surprise taken away from me.
Click to expand...
Hey buddy, good question....I gotta say, I was blindsided. I really fell into a Disney trap thinking Kylo Ren was being truthful. (In other words, I thought they were going down some BS 'family-friendly' plotline without violent overtones....maybe he would transform into a 'good guy' for the next Episode) And then BAM! Han got killed. So that happened. I really thought ol' Han would be around for all of these next films.

Speaking of Kylo Ren:
I really really like Kylo Ren as a villian. He's so whiny and emotional it's great! He's exactly like Anakin was at his age, and seems just as conflicted inside between the light and the dark.

I loved seeing him destroy all the rooms and have hissy fits the entire time. I think it fit perfectly with his character.
Click to expand...
I can get behind this. I agree. BTW, how many years ago did they film this? Adam Driver looked like a teenager.

Overall, I have to say people were very civil in not revealing spoilers before the big release (I saw it on day one) I did make an effort to stay the hell away from social media and the Internet on a whole.

You are mostly blending into one at this point... the comic book guy from The Simpsons.
Click to expand...
Nailed it. The bottom line: the following day, my son & his friend were running around the house & yard playing with light sabers. It's not really about what 30-40 yr-old men think....this is for the kids.
("For ages 6 and up." "Waaaay up!")

I can't believe they killed off Han Solo right after the halfway point in the film.

And what's with Chewbacca trying to speak English? That was lame.

Also, the whole "everyone is really a spy for the Empire" thing got tiresome fast.

Plus the re-incarnation of Obi Wan felt like a cheap lazy scripting crutch.

Sorry about the spoilers, but I just had to vent.
Click to expand...
^ so f-ing funny....and yes some of it was right! For real....if you hadn't seen the Force Awakens before lurking around this thread, what the hell are you doing here?
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
I hesitate to point out that her 'costume' was selected by the 'degenerate' Jabba the Hut, and as such, was quite different from Leia's other costumes... well... there was the original initial costume of the first Film that one could see bouncing mammaries back when 'bra-less' was a feminist statement... but I digress...

In any case, outside of that one 'degrated' den of iniquity... Leia's costumes were quite 'chaste'...

And of course Episodes I-III were quite devoid of any 'sex, drugs, and attendant skin'... fitting for the 5 year old target market, and their parents that would be accompanying them.
Click to expand...

Insightful post. :)
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
there was the original initial costume of the first Film that one could see bouncing mammaries back when 'bra-less' was a feminist statement...
Click to expand...

Actually, in one of the making of books Carrie Fisher talked about how they taped down her boobs to keep them from jiggling.
 
Batutta said:
Actually, in one of the making of books Carrie Fisher talked about how they taped down her boobs to keep them from jiggling.
Click to expand...

She talked about that in the Empire of Dreams documentary...making lots of jokes about George saying "there's no underwear in space..." hence the gaffer tape...and she joked with he crew about a contest to see who would rip it off lol. Classy.
 
Scott F said:
I really fell into a Disney trap thinking Kylo Ren was being truthful.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing your experience. I don't know, I don't think the new Star Wars movies will be too disneyfied.

Yes, Disney owns Star Wars now, but Lucasfilm remains as sort of a subsidiary, headed up by Kathleen Kennedy, whose portfolio is impressive. It was Kathleen Kennedy who dragged in J. J. Abrams, who loves, loves, loves, the original Star Wars and believes that Han shot first. So yes, Disney lurks in the background but far away --- like a Death Star.

The next episode will be written and directed by Rian Johnson, whose Looper disturbs me to this day. J. J. Abrams says the script is so good, he wishes he had written it.
 
Last edited:
I watched it again. Definitely a better viewing experience in 2D than 3D but my B grade holds. Maybe even downgraded to a B minus. There was something about the story I don't think fully works that I wasn't able to pin down until now, and it's Rey's story. Forget all the improbable Jedi tricks she pulls out of her butt. Her real problem as a character is that she has weak, inconsistent motivations that don't really drive the story. For more than half the story she has only one real motivation, to wait for her family to come back. That's inactive and not very compelling. Luke had a strong, active motivation from the start, to join the rebellion, then after seeing R2's message, help deliver the stolen plans to the rebellion and rescue the princess. That carries him through to the end of A New Hope as a character. Rey has constantly shifting motivations that change scene to scene. First she is sitting around waiting for her family, then she finds BB-8, but she doesn't know he's on a mission so she isn't actively helping him. Then she meets Finn, and only gets involved with him by default since they're being chased. Then Finn and Han take over the story and she's pretty much along for the ride until she gets captured, then her only motivation is to escape. I don't feel this shortcoming is a mortal failing, as Finn is still there as a driving force. If you really break it down, it's his movie, not Rey's. Kind of like if you really break it down, The Phantom Menace is Qui-Gon Jinn's movie, not Anakin's. But everything about both movies makes us believe Rey and Anakin are the primary protagonists when they aren't really. Despite all her kick butt feminine power, Rey is a weak protagonist because she doesn't drive the plot, she just reacts to it for most of the running time. In the end, she doesn't have a major impact on the outcome of the story. Without her, Starkiller base still blows up the New Republic capital, and Kylo Ren is still alive. Contrast that with A New Hope, where if you take Luke out, the Empire defeats the rebellion, no question. Game over. Finn may never have gotten off Jakku without Rey's help, but it's not a foregone conclusion that BB-8 would have ended up in the hands of the First Order. And even if he had, all that would mean is that they had an incomplete map to Luke Skywalker. They wouldn't have found him anyway. Or maybe they would have. And they may have killed him. Or they may not have. Luke can handle himself. Perhaps without Rey helping Finn, Starkiller base would not have been destroyed, and they might have gone on to destroy the Resistance base. But the only reason the First Order found the Resistance base is because they tracked them from Maz's Castle, and the only reason they were there, was because Rey helped Finn leave in the Falcon, which led them to Solo, which led them to Maz, which led to the Resistance showing up, which led to the First Order tracking them back to the Resistance base. Now that I think of it, if Rey hadn't gotten involved, Han Solo might still be alive!
 
Last edited:
I agree with a lot of what you say here, Batutta.

One thing to keep in mind is that the original Star Wars was constructed entirely as a stand-alone, since Lucas had no way of knowing it'd be a success and spawn sequels. With TFA, I think they're really thinking about it as a trilogy, so I'm going to be a little more lenient with character arcs until the bigger picture crystallizes in the sequels. I'm imagining TFA as the first act of Rey's story, rather than a self-contained plot.

I'm definitely looking forward to where they take the story, though.
 
Well, Abrams is also the guy who swore up and down that SPOILERS FOR STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS














Cumberbatch wasn't Khan.
















END SPOILERS

so I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in his pre-release interview statements.

Also, is there a way to tag spoilers here so they're not visible, like on Reddit?
 
Tom Shortridge said:
I agree with a lot of what you say here, Batutta.

One thing to keep in mind is that the original Star Wars was constructed entirely as a stand-alone, since Lucas had no way of knowing it'd be a success and spawn sequels. With TFA, I think they're really thinking about it as a trilogy, so I'm going to be a little more lenient with character arcs until the bigger picture crystallizes in the sequels. I'm imagining TFA as the first act of Rey's story, rather than a self-contained plot.

I'm definitely looking forward to where they take the story, though.
Click to expand...

i agree. There was just to much to do as far as introducing the new characters while still keeping the old characters around for the nostalgia appeal to the original fans. We'll have to wait and see but I don't think Rey's story parallels Luke's as a hero journey in this first movie. Because of all the other business like dealing with Han's story, there was only time for part of Rey's character arc.
i think Han Solo is the protagonist and Rey is introduced and set up to be the protagonist of the next movie.
 
Last edited:
It feels to me like the protagonistic baton gets passed around. In the beginning, Finn feels like the protagonist. But after he meets Rey, the protagonistic energy seems to dovetail into her. But as soon as they meet Han, it's like, shut up it's Han Solo. But then again he's almost like an Obi-Wan character. When he dies and then Finn gets taken out of commission, the protagonistic energy is passed back into Rey. By the end of the movie, she definitely feels like the main protagonist, going off, seeking out adventure, and what not.

But like Tom Shortridge said, the end of the movie is also like a classic Act I ending (where the hero decides to go on the quest) in a larger story. Rey is likely the trilogic protagonist, but there was a lot of supplemental booster rockets fired to get her really into that role. Whether that's good plot structure is a hard question to answer. I mostly enjoyed the movie except for the Death Star rehash revisited.
 
Gillvane said:
i think Han Solo is the protagonist and Rey is introduced and set up to be the protagonist of the next movie.
Click to expand...

Finn is the protagonist. At nearly every juncture that really matters throughout the story, he moves the plot forward. He rescues Poe, he agrees to help BB-8 get to the resistance, he gives up crucial information on how to destroy Starkiller Base, he lies to get Han and Chewie to lead a mission to deactivate the shields and save Rey. I actually think if they hadn't had the burden of including Han in this movie they might have managed a cleaner story for Rey and more dimension for Poe. My least favourite part of the film is the nonsense on Han's freighter. It had a low rent feel to it, Syfy channel-like silliness. One thing for sure about this movie, for those pre-disposed to liking it, there's a lot to like. But for those who aren't, there is plenty to dislike. I come down on the side of liking it more than not, but its lustre is already fading for me.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Finn was literally bred to be a slave of the First Order. He didn't even have a name, just a serial number. He was programed from birth, and it felt like one day he just turned. I'm sure there's more to it, but that's how it felt.
Click to expand...

I guess for me the dialog about the programing failing often enough that they screen for it was enough to explain Finn having a conscience. But you are right that there is more to Finn's backstory than what we get in the film.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Finn


-Andrew
 
I wonder if there's any significance to FN-2187. We all know THX-1138 and TK-421, and Pixar and other animated films have A113 hidden in them. FN-2187 is just too ripe an opportunity for an Easter Egg not to mean something to someone.
 
Thanks guys, I knew it had to be something.

BTW, it's just this sort of geekery that makes me wonder how I ever got a woman to agree to marry me.
 
Batutta said:
Finn is the protagonist. At nearly every juncture that really matters throughout the story, he moves the plot forward. He rescues Poe, he agrees to help BB-8 get to the resistance, he gives up crucial information on how to destroy Starkiller Base, he lies to get Han and Chewie to lead a mission to deactivate the shields and save Rey. I actually think if they hadn't had the burden of including Han in this movie they might have managed a cleaner story for Rey and more dimension for Poe. My least favourite part of the film is the nonsense on Han's freighter. It had a low rent feel to it, Syfy channel-like silliness. One thing for sure about this movie, for those pre-disposed to liking it, there's a lot to like. But for those who aren't, there is plenty to dislike. I come down on the side of liking it more than not, but its lustre is already fading for me.
Click to expand...

i think this script doesn't follow a classic hero's journey plot with one protagonist. The earlier comment about the protagonist baton being passed around seems to be correct and it's an interesting structure. While Finn is proactive and there is a good argument he is the protagonist he fails the test towards the end of the movie. The classic protagonist might have help along the way but I'm the end the protagonist must succeed, or fail on his or her own. Finn has to be saved in the end by Rey. When that happens generally the savior becomes the protagonist not the person being saved. Finn becomes the damsel in distress, whatever the masculine version of that is, rather than the protagonist.
 
Gillvane said:
i think this script doesn't follow a classic hero's journey plot with one protagonist. The earlier comment about the protagonist baton being passed around seems to be correct and it's an interesting structure. While Finn is proactive and there is a good argument he is the protagonist he fails the test towards the end of the movie. The classic protagonist might have help along the way but I'm the end the protagonist must succeed, or fail on his or her own. Finn has to be saved in the end by Rey. When that happens generally the savior becomes the protagonist not the person being saved. Finn becomes the damsel in distress, whatever the masculine version of that is, rather than the protagonist.
Click to expand...

Finn did fail. Just because he had to be saved doesn't make him any less the protagonist. He committed an act of self sacrifice which completes his arc. And this event happens at the climax, about ten minutes before the movie is over.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top