F35: SR-R1 Recorder Firmware and F23/F35 functionality

[helweg]

Hello,

I was able to pick up a new (in box) SR-R1 recorder and SR-D1 offload station this weekend for a steal and it also included the interconnection parts, control panel and some 256gb cards.
I'd like to try and use this with my F23 as it seems like a decent recorder and in the latest firmware it claims it can do 10/12bit 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 50/60.

I notice that in the revised manual they've included all the latest features from the new firmware and there are some SR motion modes listed as being compatible with the F35 and a section is dedicated to the best way of using the SR-R1 with F35/23.
My understanding is that they use a clever way of picking frames from the incoming stream for this, and true "select frame" mode is only possible with the F3.

It kind of seems like the slow and fast SR Motion functions were thrown in satisfy the meagre few that were hanging out for the SR-R3 when that was shelved, but still I'd like to test them out.
Has anyone experimented with this combo in recent times, and are those modes worth a look?

I should mention that I'm aware the F23 won't directly communicate with the SR-R1 without something like the PIM-SR-R1 or James Viddovation's custom micro solution, and I'm ok with that for now (even though the fan noise annoys me a bit).

Cheers

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

Here is the latest firmware for that recorder in case you couldn't find it man - https://www.servicesplus.sel.sony.com/sony-software-model-SRR1.aspx

 

[helweg]

Thanks Mike.

 

[helweg]

After some testing with the SR-R1, I can confirm that the F23 (in it's supposed latest firmware) only outputs 10bit 4:4:4 out of the IF box.
12bit doesn't seem possible as the recorder throws a warning code alerting that the recording bit depth doesn't match the payload ID coming from camera. This matches what I think Jo Kami noted in another post, although I don't know if that's the case with the SRW-1 and true VTR operation.




SR-R1 is a cool recorder though!
Allows you to set 3G or 1.5G sdi output and a record trigger over downstream SDI, so I was able to have it trigger my BM video assist to record alongside.
Hopefully I'll update the firmware soon once I can get a memory stick duo adapter.

I love that it ships with a non locking v-mount wedge plate too. Handy.
I'll have to fashion something that enables it to lock in place properly.

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

To my understanding the SRW1 is a max 10bit 4:4:4 recorder. It can not to 12bit like the one you have. I didnt even realize the F23 could output 12bit.

 

[dhessel]

I don't think it can. On the F23 when you select the format, if there is 12bit it would have and option like S25P 12 444. If you don't see a format that with a 12 in it then there is no 12bit option available. It is very possible that 12bit is only on the F35 since it is a different sensor.

 

[helweg]

That makes a lot of sense actually. The more you know!

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

I don't think it can. On the F23 when you select the format, if there is 12bit it would have and option like S25P 12 444. If you don't see a format that with a 12 in it then there is no 12bit option available. It is very possible that 12bit is only on the F35 since it is a different sensor.

totally makes sense. i didnt think the F23 could do 12bit.

 

[helweg]

So it's been a few days and I've done some experimenting with the SR-R1.
Firstly the non locking v-mount plate thing (for joining it with the F900R) presents some challenges for securing the unit but it can at least be joined temporarily to the F23.

I was getting caught up in the 5th edition SR-R1 manual (that discusses the SRK-R311 DPX/SQoption board) thinking that it would incorporate all those defunct features into the latest firmware and that some of them (in particular SRmotion) might be supported for Dual Link connected cameras like F23/F35 and HDC1500, but it turns out that they dropped some of what's mentioned and the only SRMotion function you can use with dual link is Interval recording.

However the interval record function is pretty cool!
Because you can still set the "frame rate" on the F23/F35 without a VTR and have the shutter compensated/matched to say 180 degrees for whatever you set, you can have the SR-R1 extract those frames with the interval record function without recording a whole heap of unused frames and it will produce normal looking fast motion as if you had performed the process in-camera.

Granted the function is fairly limited, and weirdly hidden away in the diagnosis menu like it was a real afterthought.
I found that it works best when it captures 1 single frame per interval, with speeds of 2-12fps (fast motion) and I would only have use for it with a base rate of 24 or 25fps (working in the 50/60fps base rate has diminishing returns).
I struggled to get my brain around the frame/interval relationships so I put together a document helping to visualise it.
When you start to capture more than 1 frame per the interval things start to get confusing, drop frames happen or nothing happens at all, so I'm more than content with the fast motion stuff for now.
Of course you could also do timelapse stuff like a single frame every 2 minutes etc..

It would have been great if there was an option for the recorder to extract multiple frames over the interval (say 1 second or 25 or 24 frames interval) and allow you to specify the spread between those frames, but unfortunately it only allows you to sequentially grab those frames, i.e. 4 frames out of that 24 interval, leaving a gap of 20 remaining each second.
Maybe there's a way and I just suck at math!

Anyway here's a really poor test in my 70s kitchen:

I noticed that when I set a really low frame rate/shutter on the F23 it suddenly shows up all the shonky pixels that were otherwise hidden in ordinary use.
Yikes!
Great for identifying the bad pixels for RPN'ing but there's way too many of the less visible ones for me to be bothered with.
Here's an image that's enhanced a lot to bring those pixels out of the s-log.


On the positive side you get SR-HQ 4:4:4 10/12bit (10 on F23) with the latest and last firmware which is good stuff and I look forward to pushing it hard in a grade.
The control panel is a delight to use and I love that it's switchable between single, dual and 3G sdi output with both trigger and out and in.
Interesting to note that the F23's monitor out is "supported" by the SR-R1 as having an acceptable SDI trigger, but of course it won't do anything without a proper communication over the VTR dock.

I would totally love to drop the $3500 on a PIM-SR for a better connectivity option, or go down the route (Viddovation) James Houk went with his microcontroller interface for docking an SR-R1 directly but unfortunately it's never going to happen if I'm honest.

Here's it's current setup, in preferable mode:


And extended far-too-long mode.


I'll need to get a hold of that 8pin Lemo connector or cable soon enough if I want to have the IF box on top like that, and ultimately I might end up deciding not to use the SR-R1 anyway if it chews through batteries too quickly!
Raises the question of the best way of powering this thing with failover/redundant power.
I should think an AC-DN2B with power coming from the connector into lemo and the SR-R1 getting juice from the DN2B's side XLR 4pin connector.

Good times.

Currently the SR-D1 offload has given me nothing but trouble, at least on the mac side.
I have tried every single piece of mac software available from Sony and none of it works properly in High Sierra 10.13, SRMemory is unrecognisable when mounted (OSX says that it can't be read and prompts for format or ejection).
The SRmemory software recognises the SR-D1 but hangs if a card is inserted.
Similar things happened in Windows 7 until I took it back to where I bought it from and got them to test it successfully.

It turns out I just needed the correct combo of SRMemorysoftware and SRviewer which made things work, as well not using a weird usb 3.0 port that was causing ejection and re-intialisation every couple of seconds.
Can now access the footage successfully on Windows (unfortunately), so I'm trying to get onto Sony to provide updated versions of the mac software but they'll probably never come to the party.
They've been extremely unhelpful, and it's frustrating that there is indeed a version of SRMemory software available for 10.13 High Sierra on the SR-D1 website but the download list only gives windows versions...
SRViewer which may be the key to things actually working is only available in version 1.0, which is really going back in time.

I've yet to test eSATA so that may be an option through a Sonnet Tempo but I doubt it.
Regretting not buying the AJA Io XT that was on offer for a steal too! That can dock with the SR-R1 for offload over Thunderbolt.

At least I'm able to get access to the data even if it does mean using windows, I really though the SR-D1 had some kind of hardware issue.

 

[helweg]

An update for the very few (I'm sure) that may be interested in this thread.

I have progressed in attaching and using the SR-R1 in standard dual link mode.
Yes it's heavy, yes it's relatively power hungry, yes it's convoluted but hey, for the price (less than 2% of it's original list price, I think it's not a bad deal).
The 10bit 4:4:4 SStP SR ~700Mbit format is quite meaty and puts out a good image.
The SR Memory cards seem robust and satisfying.

There was some work in getting the battery plates and power inputs to all play together nicely.

I was able to get the problematic SR-D1 USB 3.0 offload working under Windows 7 and offloaded some footage but for whatever reason now windows explorer seems to crash whenever I try and do something SR-D1 related, so I moved on and installed a fresh copy of OSX Mavericks on a sacrificial external drive and was able to get the Mac SR drivers and SR-viewer going, which will do until (or if) they supply the current 10.13 driver.
So at least that's an option!

Here's some shots of the outfit in it's current shonky iteration.




The control panel is pictured on the operator side, but whilst it's ideal for keeping an eye on the LCD and having access to the record start/stop, it's also in the way and prohibits using a follow focus.
So I looked at attaching up above but where it's still accessible in a handheld position.



Although heavy, it's quite well balanced and easy to throw around.
Power is an issue for longer shoot times with the biggest issue being that if the SR-R1 dies during recording it can be problematic and requires a rebuild of the clip.
Fan isn't the quietest either, especially when coupled with the F23 which sounds like one of the fans is a bit whiney.

Still hanging out for an Odyssey, but this will do for some fun for the moment.

 

[Guest]

Fantastic!!!!!

Love the build considering the challenge!

Bravo!

 

[rbirnbaum]

Damn! Glad you got it working man. That's a challenge. I am sure this project is hacking a lot of doors open to further mod our cameras. Thanks for posting and share some footage out of that SR-R1 when you have a chance.