squeeze or letterbox

If one wanted letterboxed 16:9 SD (as opposed to anamorphic 16:9 SD) when shooting with an HVX.

Why? I wouldn't do it... but the HVX has an option to record in letterboxed SD. The question is, how does it achieve this... by using 56% of the full 16:9 sensor by starting with a 4:3 image and overlaying black bars (the "stupid way") or by downrezzing the image of the full 16:9 sensor and just filling in the rest of the 4:3 frame of the letterboxed SD with black (the "smart" way). Apparently, the HVX does this the "stupid" way.

I keep "stupid" and "smart" in quotes, because the HVX is a complicated beast; I (and everyone else outside Panny) have pretty limited knowledge of the HVX sensor's and processor's internal workings, and indeed there are likely tradeoffs that make "stupid" and "smart" interpretable in many ways and from many perspectives. But if one disregards all that, it's "smarter" to always use as much of the sensor as possible.
 
Wow. Rarely do I come to the end of a thread MORE confused.

I shoot with a DVX-100B (for over a year now) and have shot in just about every mode. Through Barry's book, other books, various tutorials AND DVXuser....I've settled on 24pa and SQUEEZE. I've been lucky to get decent results (adding 2.35:1 letterbox in FCP....albeit improperly i think...) BUT, the end product (DVD) always has looked good until......

I entered a short film challenge last month and my footage, which was decent in the past, came out blurry/fuzzy when blown up to the 30' projector (not so in past events....using the same mode/settings). However, I may have pushed my DV footage to, or past, it's limits in FCP (many layers/multiple renders)....and, if that is the case, then this post is in the wrong forum/thread.

However, I am still trying to figure out what I did wrong and how to learn from it (AND FIX IT!). One suggestion was to shoot in 4:3 (in the future) and have FCP do the "squeeze" to possibly retain more clarity (a possible 5-10%....as stated earlier in this thread....would be well worth the extra time and effort IMO).
After reading through this thread, with very valid points on both sides, I feel even more confused. On top of using compressor to uprez and crop....

I guess I'll either have to do some taste tests on my own OR break my piggy bank and buy an HVX (although waiting for the HVX-200a....)
 
SQUEEZE or not, the difference is minor, and an SD image on a 30' screen will tend to be soft. Even with sharpening, it'll still be soft with extra-large sharpening artifacts. Unless the projector is HD and does a good job of upscaling on the fly.

I think the biggest differentiator with SD projection, even more than sharpness is making sure your footage is properly exposed, and has strong contrast. A little underexposure (even for effect) and flat contrast just completely washes on most projectors. Blah.
 
i just checked out a dv to film transfer house and they say to shoot anamorphic. adaptor is better but squeeze is next best thing.
 
I may have over reacted a little (to the probs with my last short film).

However, I still had problems (and very much would like to figure them out for future efforts).

1) Just now, going back and looking at it, I did shoot a few scenes poorly. (underlit/noise.....even a couple out of focus....d'oh).

2) It was a week-long film challenge. First 3 1/2 days we shot, next 3 1/2 days I edited.
Last day (and before I could send out to COLOR for a proper CC and noise reduction through Gnoise Nattress plug-in) my computer crashed. The night before, in delerium, I experimented with a free Technicolor plug-in from Patrick Sheffield and burned out a test (or 'safety') copy. It wasn't too smart applying that filter BEFORE ANY CC was done.....but I was delerious! Anyway, turns out that was the copy I had to hand in (80-90% finished...no chance to CC, denoise, sharpen, uprez etc...)....but better than nothing at all.

3) I agree, blowing SD up onto a 30' screen through a projector will definitely make almost anything soft (or softer). There were 9 films submitted....4 were clear....5 were blurry/fuzzy. The clear films placed 1-4. Mine places 5th (or, 1st place in the FUZZY division...ha ha). I do know that (of the clear films) 1 was shot with a Canon XL-2, two with a Sony (in 60i)! the other I don't know.
Not to veer too far from the topic of this thread....but I am looking for a way to sharpen my footage to be able to compete with the "clear" teams (and, of course, get on the right track to better footage personally). I'm not going to shoot in 60i and try to "add" a 24p pulldown (certainly seems counterproductive).....again, wondering if shooting 4:3 would give me more pixels to squeeze in FCP, therefore resulting in a (barely?) sharper image???

Maybe it is too little of a difference to really make a difference.....the squeeze vs 4:3 debacle.

4) I am aware that an anamorphic adapter will result in a better image....but that too has it's drawbacks. Bulky/heavy. Can not put a filter on it. PRICE! Instead, I'll just put that money towards an HVX.

I, like mostly everyone else here at DVXuser, just want to figure out a proper workflow for his or her needs with the tools available to them. This is just another link in the chain that I want to get my head around. Too many times you'll see that just one MINOR thing can ruin a video/film production.

Anyway, here's my fuzzy effort......one day, when I have time, I'll clean it up with a proper CC etc... 9min....but it has explosions (ha ha)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBjdegMhZsA
 
I use squeeze and have my monitors in AVID set for 16 X 9 and had no problems. If you use Final Cut Pro, use the easy settings menu to set for NTSC Anamorphic, and you will also have no problems. I also use the Anamorphic adaptor (mainly for dolly and glidecam use) and have occasionally forgotten to switch the DVX back to Normal, so I've captured 2.35:1, and I have used this footage successfully. Just don't use the letterbox function when most NLE's will give you all your pixels and allow you to format the screen in any way you life. Also, are you sure you want to take your project to film? Most festivals accept DVD these days.
 
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