Space shuttle take off audio <--- looking for
- Thread starter macgregor
- Start date
William_Robinette
Shallow Member
Maybe http://www.archive.org/index.php might have something?
And I don't know how one would go about contacting the right person, but I would imagine NASA would have sound recordings of the launches. Since they are a government agency their stuff is open to the public (US citizens only?) I'm pretty sure.
And I don't know how one would go about contacting the right person, but I would imagine NASA would have sound recordings of the launches. Since they are a government agency their stuff is open to the public (US citizens only?) I'm pretty sure.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
henryqlu's idea is not legal so I wouldn't go there. Especially not with anything connected to Lucas, they are very aggressive with copyright infringement.
To the OP what you are actually asking for isn't possible. There will be no close up recordings of a shuttle launch because of the heat. It's also ah... LOUD.
What you can get are recordings that are pretty clean from a distance. I would look first at the NASA site. They have a lot of stuff there and I believe all or most is free to use, they like the PR.
On a film other than a documentary we would probably be creating it from scratch. The reason is that there are no good close recordings and even if there were they wouldn't be specific enough. What I mean by that is you can get or generate some pretty close up images of a take off with telephoto lenses but the sound is going to be one huge roar. When we see cables snap off or the holding bolt blow we want to hear that but in real life those sounds would be totally drowned out by the roar of the engine.
If I were working on a film with a good dramatic take off with close ups etc I would work backward. Cut in the specifics you want to hear and then add the roar. If you mix it well you should have a sound that fits and is as interesting as the shots.
To the OP what you are actually asking for isn't possible. There will be no close up recordings of a shuttle launch because of the heat. It's also ah... LOUD.
What you can get are recordings that are pretty clean from a distance. I would look first at the NASA site. They have a lot of stuff there and I believe all or most is free to use, they like the PR.
On a film other than a documentary we would probably be creating it from scratch. The reason is that there are no good close recordings and even if there were they wouldn't be specific enough. What I mean by that is you can get or generate some pretty close up images of a take off with telephoto lenses but the sound is going to be one huge roar. When we see cables snap off or the holding bolt blow we want to hear that but in real life those sounds would be totally drowned out by the roar of the engine.
If I were working on a film with a good dramatic take off with close ups etc I would work backward. Cut in the specifics you want to hear and then add the roar. If you mix it well you should have a sound that fits and is as interesting as the shots.
henryqiu
Well-known member
Both of your statements are not true.
1st. Take an example: if you grab the sound from a movie or game in order to let your 1st-grade students feel how a space shuttle sounds like before and during its take off, I strongly doubt any judge would find it not legal and rule against it. After all, this is much easier to do than checking out the whole movie or game from your library and showing it to your classroom. Also, if in doubt, you can always write to the copyright owner and ask for permission to use an audio file or sound track found in their computer game. If they don't allow, you can move on and keep doing that until you find a generous owner. The "worst" case cannot be worse than this: pay a fee for your use of the sound.
2nd. There are audio/video recordings of space shuttles taking off, and there should be a lot sch recordings already (though how close is considered close can be debated). I watched them a few times in the past. By my memory, they don't sound like what you would typically hear in a movie/game, yet those movies/games are believable to me.
Alternatively, if you have the talents, you can always use certain software like Ableton Live to craft out such relatively simple sounds based on your own imagination, starting with certain recordings that don't have to be remotely like a rocket launching. A lot of sounds in computer games are created this way and they are so realistic/believable.
Gregg Juke
Well-known member
Whether it is possible or not, or whether it is probable or not that one will get caught, is not the standard of what is legal or ethical.
And the Fair Use doctrine does cover educational settings; it does not cover theft and re-use of content in a new creative venture.
I assure you those "game sounds" are wholly-owned by whichever developer owns the rights to the game in question.
Make your own, get a royalty-free sample, or pay a professional to sound-design appropriate effects.
GJ
And the Fair Use doctrine does cover educational settings; it does not cover theft and re-use of content in a new creative venture.
I assure you those "game sounds" are wholly-owned by whichever developer owns the rights to the game in question.
Make your own, get a royalty-free sample, or pay a professional to sound-design appropriate effects.
GJ
Richard Crowley
Veteran
People who are competent to offer legal advice would know better than to do it for free in a forum like this with no background info.
There are very few legal defenses against copyright infringement. They include news/analysis/criticism, parody, and education.
Since macgregor has not identified his project as being one that is possibly exempt, it would be better not to assume such a status.
The most "realistic" tracks of a large rocket launch were probably synthesized and have no real components.
There are very few legal defenses against copyright infringement. They include news/analysis/criticism, parody, and education.
Since macgregor has not identified his project as being one that is possibly exempt, it would be better not to assume such a status.
The most "realistic" tracks of a large rocket launch were probably synthesized and have no real components.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Beg to differ
You probably fall under the education exclusion for the class so that IS probably legal. However it's isn't legal to have a public showing. Again if it's connected to the class you might fall under the education exclusion but that is going to be a stretch for a whole film.
Game sounds are copyrighted the same as music. You could ask for permission but that is rarely given. Partially because the sounds may not even be owned by the game producer. I have provided sounds for a few games and we retain rights to the sound. The game company got a period of exclusivity on the sound and the rights to use them in THAT game. So for you to get permission to one of those sounds requires permission from them and me. It's possible but not likely.
The "worst case" is a lot worse than a small fine. In the US it could be a substantial fine and in Canada it could be jail time. With your particular scenario it could cost the teacher their job. Teachers have lost jobs over music copyright infringement.
It's hard to say about courts. It could get tossed because it seems small potatoes or it could get pressed because it's setting a bad example for children?
I didn't say there were not recordings just not close up ones. The heat off the engines is well over the melting point of steel and the SPL level is huge. The nozzles on the shuttle have liquid hydrogen circulating through them to keep them from melting. There is no microphone transducer that would survive that and if there was all you would get is a distorted roar.
Those movies and games sound believable because someone like me (actually a whole crew of folks) spent a lot of time constructing that sound.
Ableton Live would not be high on the list since it is designed for live playback and is a loop program. But indeed pretty much all sounds in films and games are created in editing applications. It is not however a "simple sound", at least not if you do it well.
They may be "believable" but you shouldn't confuse believable with "real". Hardly anything sounds like what people think it sounds like.
henryqiu
Well-known member
To OP
Another idea: start with a public library (from your local ones to the national ones including the Congress Library) and search for historical footage of any space shuttle. Once you locate one that suits your needs, ask the library to see how you can use the footage (sounds and/or visuals) in your own project. As long as you follow certain rules of thumb about Fair Use and (whenever in doubt) get permission in writing, you should be fine with (at least) US copyright law.
Another idea: start with a public library (from your local ones to the national ones including the Congress Library) and search for historical footage of any space shuttle. Once you locate one that suits your needs, ask the library to see how you can use the footage (sounds and/or visuals) in your own project. As long as you follow certain rules of thumb about Fair Use and (whenever in doubt) get permission in writing, you should be fine with (at least) US copyright law.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Lets get something clear. Just because you can get your hands on something does NOT give you the right to use it.
Fair use is a defense you only get to find out if you qualify under when your in court defending your self in a law suit.
The only archive I know that is generally safe is the Internet Archive. They work to make sure that everything is in the public domain.
With this particular sound I think you can probably find recordings in the public domain because NASA has been very open about letting that kind of thing be free to the public. However there are going to be a lot more recordings done by others of rocket launches and those will not be in the public domain. News coverage is copyrighted so any of that you find is probably not in the public domain.
But as someone pointed out we don't have any idea what project the OP wants this for. As long as it's personal and not for public consumption you can use just about anything. But if you want to show it to friends or post it on line you need to cover yourself.
If you can't find it at the Internet Archive I would try Sound Dogs. There may well be a recorded or created shuttle launch that will fit your needs for not too much money.
Fair use is a defense you only get to find out if you qualify under when your in court defending your self in a law suit.
The only archive I know that is generally safe is the Internet Archive. They work to make sure that everything is in the public domain.
With this particular sound I think you can probably find recordings in the public domain because NASA has been very open about letting that kind of thing be free to the public. However there are going to be a lot more recordings done by others of rocket launches and those will not be in the public domain. News coverage is copyrighted so any of that you find is probably not in the public domain.
But as someone pointed out we don't have any idea what project the OP wants this for. As long as it's personal and not for public consumption you can use just about anything. But if you want to show it to friends or post it on line you need to cover yourself.
If you can't find it at the Internet Archive I would try Sound Dogs. There may well be a recorded or created shuttle launch that will fit your needs for not too much money.
As has been pointed out, simply having access to a recorded sound does not grant use of that sound.
Copyright is what it is, and unless something is clearly defined as public domain, or has been acquired by proper licensing or direct permission from the copyright owner it should not be used. Period.
Let's get this topic back on track with legaly-licensed resources and techniques.
Copyright is what it is, and unless something is clearly defined as public domain, or has been acquired by proper licensing or direct permission from the copyright owner it should not be used. Period.
Let's get this topic back on track with legaly-licensed resources and techniques.
luke stewart
Active member
http://www.sounddogs.com/sound-effects/30/mp3/237410_SOUNDDOGS__sh.mp3
Here you are. 11 bucks and you are good to go. Not sure about the quality, but with really loud effects, the audience will forgive some clipping- adds a bit of docu-realism I'd argue.
Here you are. 11 bucks and you are good to go. Not sure about the quality, but with really loud effects, the audience will forgive some clipping- adds a bit of docu-realism I'd argue.
henryqiu
Well-known member
To Noiz2:
1) 1st: Your response to my comment on your post has already proved my comment was correct. Your initial statement was that my "idea was not legal." Period. But in your response, you acknowledged that my "idea" was not illegal unconditionally. You also acknowledged that there is a gray area where it's hard to decide whether a certain use is legal or not. The OP merely asked for some ideas about where to find the sound. Once OP locates it, how OP actually uses, legally or not, is really up to OP.
Think about this: I could ask you or someone else where to find a certain rare-to-find mic. You or someone else could say: just drop by B&H and you'll find it. Does that mean you or someone else would be advising me to steal the mic or however acquire it illegally?
2) 2nd point: your initial statement was "To the OP what you are actually asking for isn't possible. There will be no close up recordings of a shuttle launch because of the heat. It's also ah... LOUD." This statement denies the possibility unconditionally, without even specifying how close you consider as "close."
Think about this: when you record bullet sounds really close, would you have to let the bullet hit your mic and destroy it? When you record land-to-air missile sounds really close, would you have to let your mic fly with the missile and be destroyed along with the missile? When you record the sound of a wild lion really close, would you have to let the lion chew your mic just so that you could get something really close? Of course, not. Even if destroying your mic is exactly part of what you want to do, you do not have to. When you record a space shuttle launch and/or take off, regardless how close or how far, you don't have to let your mic be destroyed in the process.
Also, when you record the sound of a car starting up to reach a fast speed, how likely would you only record engine sounds under its engine hood? The OP is asking for the sound of a space shuttle, certainly not just a part of it like an engine or the rocket that pushes the shuttle into its orbit. A space shuttle is huge, and you can always place your mic real "close", have it protected from the heat / impact, and capture the sound of the whole shuttle taking off.
Anyway, there are historical audio/video footage of space shuttles being ignited and launched. Certain footage were made in various distances from outside of the space shuttles. Other footage were made from inside (for documenting and research purposes at least), including from the point of view of on-board astronauts. Lots of such footage. Some of them are public records available to the general public.
1) 1st: Your response to my comment on your post has already proved my comment was correct. Your initial statement was that my "idea was not legal." Period. But in your response, you acknowledged that my "idea" was not illegal unconditionally. You also acknowledged that there is a gray area where it's hard to decide whether a certain use is legal or not. The OP merely asked for some ideas about where to find the sound. Once OP locates it, how OP actually uses, legally or not, is really up to OP.
Think about this: I could ask you or someone else where to find a certain rare-to-find mic. You or someone else could say: just drop by B&H and you'll find it. Does that mean you or someone else would be advising me to steal the mic or however acquire it illegally?
2) 2nd point: your initial statement was "To the OP what you are actually asking for isn't possible. There will be no close up recordings of a shuttle launch because of the heat. It's also ah... LOUD." This statement denies the possibility unconditionally, without even specifying how close you consider as "close."
Think about this: when you record bullet sounds really close, would you have to let the bullet hit your mic and destroy it? When you record land-to-air missile sounds really close, would you have to let your mic fly with the missile and be destroyed along with the missile? When you record the sound of a wild lion really close, would you have to let the lion chew your mic just so that you could get something really close? Of course, not. Even if destroying your mic is exactly part of what you want to do, you do not have to. When you record a space shuttle launch and/or take off, regardless how close or how far, you don't have to let your mic be destroyed in the process.
Also, when you record the sound of a car starting up to reach a fast speed, how likely would you only record engine sounds under its engine hood? The OP is asking for the sound of a space shuttle, certainly not just a part of it like an engine or the rocket that pushes the shuttle into its orbit. A space shuttle is huge, and you can always place your mic real "close", have it protected from the heat / impact, and capture the sound of the whole shuttle taking off.
Anyway, there are historical audio/video footage of space shuttles being ignited and launched. Certain footage were made in various distances from outside of the space shuttles. Other footage were made from inside (for documenting and research purposes at least), including from the point of view of on-board astronauts. Lots of such footage. Some of them are public records available to the general public.
And how we direct people to resources, legal or not, it a matter of policy/practice here (read: the promotion of piracy is not allowed). If you still need clarification on this, please read the "8 P's" of conduct in the Forum Guidelines. Suggesting that some one lift sounds from a Lucasfilm video game for their project is, for all practical purposes, advocating the theft of Lucasfilm's copyrighted content.
Again, this is not up for debate. Please keep this thread on topic by directing the OP (macgregor) to legitimate resources and by not making this personal.
John Morrison
Well-known member
Actually, just go to www.nasa.gov, select the "Legal" in the contact area, and ask them. Send an email and ask to speak to legal on the phone. Once you discuss your project with the lawyer, he/she will point you to Public Affairs, who'll point you to where you need to go.
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
Exactly. People need to realize that sometimes it is as easy as asking and just talking to the right people. Why compromise your integrity to get out of taking some time and phone/email work? The advent of the internet, has made it a lot easier to get legal sound files. Think back 20-30 years, when if you wanted a sound, you had to make it yourself, or hire someone/buy the sound. And then, if you got caught stealing someone's sound work, you were blacklisted and sued.
henryqiu
Well-known member
With all due respect, I'd have to say - in my defense - that not only your logical reasoning here is totally invalid, but also you misunderstood the intention of my original post.
1) To demonstrate how invalid your logical reasoning is:
By exactly same logical reasoning, if you inform someone that a mic he's looking for is available at B&H, you would be suggesting that he should shoplift the mic from the B&H New York superstore! On this forum, and probably on every forum here, many have posted similar information. they must all be suggesting (based on your logic) that the one who asks for the information should take illegal actions.
2) With all due respect, I'd like you to read the very last sentence of my very first post in this thread:
Having a piece of certain information and how to act on the information are of course separate matters. Continue from the above imaginary example: After you have posted the information about the availability of certain mic at B&H, how one decides to do with your information, and how one decides to acquire the mic, legally or not, is, of course, totally up to him. Of course, not up to you at all! Even if you put up a disclaim like "no theft or shoplifting please", your information can still be used in facilitating a shoplifting or whatever other illegal action that he decides to take in acquiring the mic, right? Once he has committed a crime based on your information, are you going to be held responsible for his crime because without your information he would not have known B&H has the mic? Unfortunately, by your logic, you are. If NYPD follows your logic, once they arrest the shoplifter, they would chase after you.
3) In your defense, you could say: by passing him the information, "I did not suggest to him that he should go illegal...". Of course, you did NOT. We all know that. The police know that. That's why you will never be arrested if someone uses your well-written sticker on recorders to steal a best recorder that he likes best... Likewise, for my defense, I would ask: by passing the OP an idea about the availability of certain sounds somewhere, why do you think I was suggesting to the OP that he or she should acquire or use something in a way that violates certain laws, copyright law or not?
I hope the above makes sense to you and others.
To OP: Sorry to you OP, for this has gone quite off topic. I believe you know it for sure that nobody here passing you certain ideas are suggesting to you that you should violate certain laws and become an offender or criminal... This is my final word on this off topic. Good luck to you OP.
Jason Ramsey
Admin
Right... so, let's bring this back on topic...
David W. Richardson
Chapelgrove Films
And to clarify -- the 'worst case scenario' in the U.S. would include a $250,000 fine and 5 YEARS in a federal prison. Definitely not worth it!
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Because it goes to the OP's question I will respond to one part of heneryqlu's post.
As a rule I consider "close" is close as in being able to touch. At the very least close enough to hit with a rock.
The viewing area for launches, which is where the vast majority of recordings are going to be from, is a number of miles from the launch pad. That I don't consider close.
I won't go into the specific recordings you mention, but I have recorded most of the things you mention. If you want to discus recording techniques please start a new thread and I will be glad to discus mic placement there.
As a rule I consider "close" is close as in being able to touch. At the very least close enough to hit with a rock.
The viewing area for launches, which is where the vast majority of recordings are going to be from, is a number of miles from the launch pad. That I don't consider close.
I won't go into the specific recordings you mention, but I have recorded most of the things you mention. If you want to discus recording techniques please start a new thread and I will be glad to discus mic placement there.