Sound is in the wrong place

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Noiz2

Noiz2

Sound Ninja
I link directly to the audio forum so I didn't notice till somebody mentioned it, but WTF is sound doing with a new name and in GEAR?????


I have to say that not only is it just plainly in the wrong place but it's also insulting. The audio forum is not a GEAR DISCUSSION.

You can have an audio gear forum also if you want but sound should be with the rest of the creative categories in filmmaking.

There should actually be two, a production section and a post section. It is basically the same split as Cinematography and editing, which are split. They are very different skills and very few people work in both.

I'll have to keep an eye on this because I will actually stop posting if sound is kept in the "gear" section.

If you have no respect for sound then I'm not going to waste my time. And I don't want to be answering "gear" questions anyway.

I know it's in flux but very disappointing that I even have to post something like this.
 
My 2 cents worth is there should be a 'sound' category, which would be similar in nature to 'cinematography', as well as separate, 'equipment', since there is some variety, and falling around certain price performance considerations, and another for 'software'. The site has some number of 'camera' related sections, some number of different NLE software categories, but as far as I can tell, there is no 'specific' audio editing software category...
 
I agree that audio shouldn't be labeled "audio gear" but, then again, does the audio forum get so much traffic that it needs multiple sub forums under its own category?
 
Jason Ramsey said:
noted that you are insulted.

already discussing audio bts.
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Thanks Jason. I know there is a lot on your plate with this and I am thankful that you and the others are undertaking this daunting task of re-vamping the site

And I also realize that this was an inadvertent accident.

On the other hand.......LOL, you've gotta know how this came across. After all the work many of the members have been doing to show new members and more veteran members the importance of sound in film, then suddenly Audio was relegated to being just a "Gear Forum".

I know it was not intentional, in a way it was funny, because you didn't mean to do that. It was a "Comedy of Errors".

So guys, lets take a deep breath. The slight was unintentional, because Jason does knows the importance of sound in film, and there are still bugs and re-org to do yet on the site.

Terry, before the consolidation of the NLE's and a few other areas........Audio "sub-forum" usually had the highest viewership on DVXUser, except for "Cafe" and "Marketplace".
 
not so much an accident as the result of the end of a 20 hour day and a quick glance and "I'll just put this here for now and deal with it later".

I forget how people act like I kicked their dog when they don't like something though :)
 
LOL, we're a sensitive bunch (it's an audio pun, get it?). It comes from being treated as the red-headed step-children on set too many times. You tend to develop a defensive posture.

I have reached out to the Godfather of the Audio-mafia, Don Microphonus, and have interceded on your behalf, Jason. The hit has been canceled. Of course, now I will have to repay that favor sometime in the future, though I do not know what that favor will consist of.
 
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David Jimerson said:
It IS an overreaction to be "insulted" by the placement of a forum.
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I don't think so. Try renaming cinematography as "lens gear" and putting it under production tools and see how much reaction you get.

It's not insulting because of placement but because of what it says about the mindset of those making the decisions. It was under filmmaking and called "audio". So it's not like the decision was " we are out of time lets leave it for later". Somebody took the time to rename it and move it. So the leadership though that was an OK thing to do. It wasn't even left as "audio" and moved, it was renamed.

It supports the very incorrect idea that has been pushed by hardware dealers that all it takes is a box. That sound is a strictly technical position. One even sees job postings for "audio technician" from time to time.

It has been a hard fought battle by the professionals on the board to educate new filmmakers to the realities of filmmaking and sound. And it comes as a shock to then have that swept away by the board leadership and realize that they don't get it either.

The reason some of us are a bit passionate about this is because as it sits it will be a discussion about gear only. Which is a total defeat of the reason many of us participate.

Forums are tricky things. They flourish and drop to irrelevance over small things. If it becomes a gear forum it will likely loose most of the professional users because there are better forums for professional gear. If I have no chance to help push a new filmmaker toward making better decisions so that I can do creative work on their film rather than trudging through fixing mistakes they shouldn't have made there is very little incentive to participate.

So maybe it's all an ooops. But it's an oops that would not have happened in any other category.
And that is the insulting part.

And BTW the only way sound folks are going to find this particular thread is through a link in a closed thread in the forum formerly known as audio. That thread will be off the first page probably by the end of the day so there doesn't seem to be any desire to get real feedback.

Paranoid? Maybe.
 
Since I started this thread and I think I have explained my reaction and what my issue was, maybe we can change the tone and be more constructive...

So constructive suggestions.

Sound is complicated on one level and simple on the other. Which was why having it all lumped together generally worked.

There is production.

There will be questions about equipment but also a lot on technique and should be things on tips etc. A LOT of the folks came into the audio forum for production related questions.

Then there is post.

There are also a LOT of questions about post. On one level it would be really nice to have a section where it was all about post but on the other hand a lot of the post questions really bounce back into production. So for instance way too many qestions come up about "how to I fix XYZ". Folks can go into how one may be able to mitigate the damage but really the answer is a different approach to production, like getting a sound person.

So while it's good for them to get some help it's also good for them to get some advice from the production people about how not to be in this situation next time.

Splitting the two might get more discussions about the creative part of post but? Keeping them together has a nice cross pollination effect.

I would probably lean toward having them split but there are benefits both ways.

Composers and music are in a strange place. In the feature world music isn't part of "sound", but in the micro budget world the post folks are the ones dealing with the music generally so IF post and production are split then I think it makes sense to have music be part of post sound. There haven't been that many music posts (other than where do I get free...., and copyright questions). Though with a section that actually had music in the title that could change?

Gear.

Post and production gear are often very different but 90% of the gear questions are production related so I don't think it makes any sense at all to split them up.

So I can see two combos that jump out.

Sound Technique
Sound gear

or
Post sound and Music
Production Sound
Sound Gear

I'm sure there are other options (and better names) but there you go.
 
Was that you touching me Terry? I might have to kill ya.

OK so sound is kind of back in a good place. But Post is now a sub section of Production sound?

I'm assuming that is going to change.

Don't know if it was because of the maintenance or the strange location but I notice virtually no activity (or at least posts) while it was living there.
 
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