Sound FX Microphone to go with Tascam DR 40

P

PianoBear

New member
Hello there :)

I'm something of an audio newbie and I was hoping to get some advice on how to achieve good quality for my audio for some reasonable price.

My intention is to be recording both indoor and outdoor sound effects, lots of foley, and then possibly some other sound effects at greater distance, and ambiences. Mostly the former though so the equipment should be geared toward that - recording at close distance.

I currently have Tascam DR-40, whose built-in microphones surprised me quite a bit and I've managed to capture some good sound with it.

Right now, I'm simply looking to upgrade my setup so I can get better quality and be able to record outside better (handling noise and wind is tricky on the Tascam). I'm hoping to not exceed the budget of 500$ and still get some nicer results than with DR 40.

I've looked at the following microphones:
Rode NTG 2 - I used to own one in the past, sadly it died on me already. I like its sound but from what I've heard, it would not work well with Tascam DR 40 and would need some preamps.
Sennheiser ME66 - I heard lots of praise on this one for its great sensitivity, I suppose it wouldn't need extra preamps and would work well with DR40 with very low hiss/noise. I liked the sound of NTG2 better though.
Rode NTG 3 - a bit over the budget but if it was really worth it, I would try to go for it. The sound is gorgeous, it's said to be very versatile, which would be perfect for my needs. The downsides - price, no AA battery so it would drain the DR 40 constantly, and also - I'm not sure if this wouldn't be setup of a great mic with sub-par recorder, where the recorder is holding it back. Would it make sense to use some (cheap) preamps to up the quality/gain?
Sennheiser MKE600 - seems solid and for good price, but I haven't been able to find any tests on how it works with DR 40 (does it need extra preamps?)

Conclusion:
Mostly I'm wondering if buying an external mic in the lower price-range would make enough of a difference to the audio for it to be worth it. And if not, I should probably go into the higher price-range and in that case, I should also get some extra preamps, juicedlink and whatnot... but still stay in the 500$ area?

Naturally after listening to all the samples on the internet, what I wanna do is sell my house and buy MKH416 with a 1k$ field recorder.

Thanks for the answers
 
Welcome to DVXUser, PianoBear!

First off, Foley is actually a proper name and is thus always capitalized.

As far as mics and SFX recording, the reality is that no single mic will do it all. The DR-40's on-board stereo mics are actually not bad at all for recording some SFX. I keep one in my kit and use it to record lots of things on the fly: stereo ambient sound beds (both indoors and out), SFX recording (I've strapped it to roller coasters), etc. If the mic is up close to the source, you can still get away with the on-boards.

The pre-amps in the DR-40 aren't the worst, but aren't the best. The NTG-1/2 won't do you much good. For low-cost shotguns, the AT-875r seems to be the favorite and it has a pretty hot output to help lower the input gain on the recorder (which lowrs the noise floor). Don't forget, though, that you're also going to need at least a pistol grip with shockmount and ample windscreening. The NTG-3 is a great mic, and will also need grip, shockmount and windscreen.

I use a variety of mics in SFX recording. Stereo mics are great for ambient beds, and for some specialty FX like vehicle drive-by sounds. Shotguns allow a narrower focus and a little more distance from the mic, but realize that we're talking a matter of inches and feet here. Parabolic mics can be used for ling-distance focus, but they have their drawbacks including limited frequency response. Having a couple of dynamic mics on hand, like the SM58 and the RE20, can help with high SPL sounds like gunshots and car engines/exhaust.

So maybe, for now, look at the AT-875r with suspension and windscreen, and something like the ElectroVoice n/d767a dynamic. Those, plus the on-board stereo mics, should give you some more flexibility.

As for the handling and wind noise with the DR-40, there is a lyre suspension made for handheld recorders (just add a pistol grip). There are also fur covers that can go over the mics. Add foam under the fur and you'll be in a decent spot.
 
I would also say the AT-875R as it is quite a high level mic and will suit the lower budget mic pre-amps better. The NTG3 is also a good mic but I have never liked the NTG 1/2 and the sennheiser MKE600 is not a favorite either as it seems lacking in something.

I have used the 416 in most of my pro career but personally have five AT875r mics as I find them a great budget general purpose mic, I use mine with Rode PG2 grips and WS-6 softies.
 
If you can find a used 4073a, that would be a good mic for S/FX, due to it's 70+mV (very high) output level. See this post. A lot of folks here seem to like the AT 475R which has a 30mV output (decent and higher that the typical budget mic). You'll need a good shock mount and likely a zeppelin type windscreen for outdoors, so factor those into your budget. I concur with Alex, the DR-40's on-board stereo mic is decent.
 
Alex beat me to the Foley capitalization. But I will add that I sincerely doubt you are recording Foley. Foley is a process of recording sounds in sync to picture on a Foley stage.

For some reason "Foley" is often used to describe smaller "hard FX" or what is sometimes referred to as WIFO (a term that is kind of a contradiction as it is an abbreviation for WIld FOley, which is technically almost impossible). WIFO are sounds that would normally be done in Foley but have been recorded as FX. For instance if you have a film set in the snow and you record a bunch of footsteps in the snow specifically for scenes in the film. To technically be Foley you could walk the FS while watching the scene on a tablet, that would be Wild Foley. In practice WIFO is not done in sync to picture but with an idea of the scenes it will be needed for. As opposed to a pure FX recording where you are just trying to get coverage of FS in the snow to be used at some point in the future and not to cover a specific scene in a specific film.

The only reason any of the above is important is to keep the language straight so that you can talk to others and you both know that you are talking about the same thing.

Having worked with a lot of FX recordists and doing a fair amount my self, your bread and butter mic is a cardioid, or cardioid pair. Some recordists use a shotgun more than others, but usually its a shotgun with a changeable pattern. It also depends on who your working for etc. but a shotgun is generally too narrow for most FX work, and you have the 180 degree lobe to worry about. So it's good to have one because there are times, but you are probably not going to use it as much as a good stereo pair.

The DR40 has a decent stereo pair built in so that is a good start. But as you mentioned having the mics attached to the recorder is not ideal from a handling noise and wind perspective. There are fuzzies that slip over the DR40 that work pretty well, but it's still better to have a mic you can really stick into where you want it and still be able to see your meters etc. The AT875r might be a really decent next mic choice. It's a very short shotgun so some of the reasons shotguns are not used so much don't really apply. It's kind of a cross between a shotgun and a hyper.

Depending on what you are recording another good mic to have in the kit is a dynamic cardioid like a SM58. After that along with the mic and good wind protection you will also want at least a short boom pole. There are going to be things you want to record that you either can't get close enough to or would be stupid to get close enough to.

I would also put a good mic pre on your short list. Trew Audio had a MixPre on consignment for $300 usd the other day (with a bag). A solid mic pre or mixer will travel to whatever recorder you end up with. I've had mine for over 15 years now. The limiters on the MixPre will be very useful with some FX recording.
 
4073a is probably out of his budget but it is a great shotgun for FX. Partly because it picks up a lot of low end, which many don't, also hotter than hell so for those quiet bits. That said we had one for 8-9 years (actually still do) and have only used it a handful of times.

The asterisk to my opinions is that they are mine and reflect folks I have worked with. One thing about FX work is that kits tend to be wildly different from recordist to recordist and you are much less bound to have whatever name brand is currently almost required for production work.

Sony Walkman DATs were all the rage at one point with FX work and you would have been laughed off the set if you showed up for production work.

So your "style" doesn't have to mine or anyone else's as long as you get good results. I have friends who absolutely love SD recorders and I have one award winning friend who hates the sound of them and still hauls a Nagra RtR around for some things. You are also more flexible with buying used since in most cases 100% reliability every moment is not a job requirement. Your stuff can be a little fiddly, not too fiddly but you don't have actors and a big crew running up a bill if you have to wiggle something. This is not always the case depending on exactly what you are doing. Sometimes you do only have one shot and your job does depend on it, but often not.

BTW if you were going to sell the house and get top gear you would be spending a lot more than you think. Add a zero to that recorder and you would be a bit high but closer to the ballpark. Less than a production person, mostly because you don't need wireless and comdek and such, but a top recordists kit is easily in the $20,000 range.
 
I also use the Takstar CM 60 and 61 mics and they are great value.

As for sound effects recording I used a sony ECM-MS907 and 957 for many years with just domestic minidisc recorders. Yes they compressed the audio a lot but this seemed to suit sound effects for TV production.
 
I used MiniDisk on occasion. I picked up a component MD player with a digital out and really hard to tell from DAT, which was king at the time. The biggest draw back was MD tended to corrupt the disk if the power died and then you would loose everything, and they had a hard time with certain sounds. For fun take a MD recorder and record dopper car horn by's or bagpipes. The encoder freaks out and you get a ton of whacko harmonics.

The upside was you were a lot less likely to get mugged for your MD recorder than walking around with $$$ in a portabrace bag.
 
Alex H. said:
The DR-40's on-board stereo mics are actually not bad at all for recording some SFX.
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I second that. I had to record a LIVE band perfoming in a large room, and I only had this (wasn't planed) and the results are quite good considering the settings:
Pasword: SSJB2016

Alex H. said:
The pre-amps in the DR-40 aren't the worst, but aren't the best. The NTG-1/2 won't do you much good. For low-cost shotguns, the AT-875r seems to be the favorite and it has a pretty hot output to help lower the input gain on the recorder (which lowrs the noise floor).
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The preamp aren't the best, but still pretty good with a good mic.
The NTG1/2 aren't the best mic to start with (because of their lower output/sounds muffled to my ears as well) so I agree with Alex, won't do any good.
The 875r is certainly the best choice at that price, sounds good, clean and warm (to my ears).

I own both.

TheDingo said:
The $60 US Takstar CM63 Cardioid Condenser Mic is my favorite low cost mic for indoor recording. Great sound and it works really well with the Tascam DR-40 recorder.
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I second that! It's my new best microphone for indoor dialog! Impressed by the quality!

I've recently bought the TASCAm TM-PC1 for stereo recording, and I'm impressed! I playback the sounds I recorded (cars and ambiance mostly) and it's virtually like the cars are there! Very sensible capsule and clean sound out of it.
I have some audio clip recorded, these are straight from the recorder, compressed to MP3 for size.
 
Thank you everyone for the great answers! I think I'll be looking into the AT875R then, samples I've heard sound pretty good.

Regarding the mV value of microphones, does anyone know what specifications the in-built DR 40 microphones have? Just for comparison really. I couldn't find the info in any of the spec sheets.
 
PianoBear said:
I think I'll be looking into the AT875R then, samples I've heard sound pretty good.
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Definitively an excellent choice. Too bad I can't afford a second at the time!
PianoBear said:
Regarding the mV value of microphones, does anyone know what specifications the in-built DR 40 microphones have?
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I haven't, but they're quite sensitive. I had to lower the input from 90 (max) to something as low as 25 when I recorded the show.
 
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