Sound DVD. Who would do it?

Steve Shovlar

Steve Shovlar

DVXuser Sponsor
You know what, there is hardly a decent tutorial DVD out there to buy and learn from. Directing, blocking, lighting, editing are all covered. But sound? Nope. Zip. nadda, nowt.

There's a DVD by Wes Cavalier which isn't worth watching. In fact it went back on ebay the day it arrived at my house. lasts about 25 minutes and a person with my limited experience could have done a better job.

So what not make a proper DVD for budding sound guys. Explain the different mics in detail. Whats a cardiod, Hyper Cardiod, etc. Show how you setup for boom work, how a mixer works in the field and how to set it up, how to place lavs on actors, etc etc etc. Give advice on different price ranges. What to buy for $500, $1000, $5000, and more. The best mic for indoors and out. I am sure it would sell like hotcakes if put together properly and covered all bases. Its a difficult area to learn as information is not that readily available.

So who has the bottle to do it, guys? Who wants to make some money and become famous?:huh:
 
I can chime in, but I wouldn't do it all alone. Not in it for the money nor fame.

Kind of complicated because every so often, new gears come out and exceed the old ones. Only if you are talking about what to buy in the $500, $1000, $5000 price domain. In most cases, such as proper boom techniques and safe care for gear, those can be useful at most times. The number of actors/actresses and room dimensions are another factor that might be hard to contribute to the DVD. Indoors can be defined in many ways, some have high ceilings and some are hollow and narrow. There are some indoors with high ceilings, but are very narrow.

Your input on the basics would be a good example. Starting with the type of mics, then the type of mixers, timecode, tape return, phantom power, inputs, outputs, on-camera technique, wind noise, they all are a starting point. Very long tutorial I would say. I would definitely do it, meet up with several audio specialists in some state, get together for several weeks, and plan, perform, shoot.
 
I would definately take on a project like this. It is a pity Im so far away from you folks that might collaborate, and those folks that would buy it. :(
 
Only time will tell. It's a matter of when, where, who is going to be chairperson, what contents will be placed on DVD. Also, we would have travel expenses that will be out of our own pockets, unless you consider it as a business trip. Even then, only a few can do that. Not everyone owns a business company. The opportunity of making these kinds of tutorial DVDs is highly expected by most, especially something that has to do with audio. There aren't a lot of materials out there that can really educate the ones who are doing production and post sound. I do believe this project will have its benefit to the world. It's very different compared to reading on a forum, book, or magazine.

Hopefully, more people will be interested in this collaboration. More ideas, the better.

timapter said:
I would definately take on a project like this. It is a pity Im so far away from you folks that might collaborate, and those folks that would buy it. :(
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The reason I started this thread is because I have used this section of the forum to ask questions about what to buy and what not to go for. Always had good response and through the help on this forum have spent wisely.

But every time I come in this section, I see the same questions being asked over and over again. "Whats the best mice to buy for inside and out?", "I love my ME66", "is the mic on my DVX good enough?" etc etc etc.

I am sure if a few of you got together and decided to make a 2 hour dvd with examples, reviews, setups etc, I would think Jarred would be more than happy to promote it on the forum for you. Sell the DVD for $40 on here, other forums like DV.com and on Ebay, and it should generate good profits for those that make it.

At the moment it would lead the way, as there is nothing else out there. Time to clean up and make hay while the sin shines.
 
Hey Alan,

You're local up here, I'm here, Scott Koue is here - we can cover everything from pre-production to post. ;-)

I'm game...even know someone that could shoot it for us - I could edit it.

;-)

Tim, it's only a short hop from SA to California...and you've been working so steady I"m sure cost is no object. ;-)

Wabbit and Jeremy and Matt, we'll just have to find a way to get you here. ;-)

Oleg, we could probably find a way to get you here too. ;-)

Actually, IA695 apparently has been putting on some pretty good forums for their members, of course, I'm not one, so I don't get to go. :-( But, I've heard rumor that they are available on-line for watching.

Phil
 
Phil,

There are quite a few people located here in CA. I can hopefully ask several people I know who are into sound recording that have had a lot of experience. I'm not sure if everyone would agree to come to CA. I wouldn't mind if I have to travel to Matt's place to do this, it's just the air ticket that will kick me. I am looking forward to it in the future. Compared to all of you, I am like the new kid around the neighborhood.

Any of you going to AES this weekend? I am.
 
Hey Phil,

Yeah, Im actually planning a trip to the states sometime next year - Im hoping to tag along on some sets with some of the guys at JWsound, (HOPING), much like what vin from india did last year.

Anyways, this dvd would be super cool and anyone here that made it would get my money for a copy - I would love to be involved, but hey, we'll see what time brings. What IS cool is that between us all we've worked with pretty much every single piece of audio gear out there. Thats a powerful resource, especially seeing as we arent all so high up the chain that cost is no object, but we ARE high enough to know what works and what doesnt. :)
 
Steve,

That's a nice thought but I doubt anyone could adequately cover audio in less than 8 hours and several DVD. For instance, Bruce Williams' podcasts Sine Language and Building The Pod already have over 50 hours in the last year related to various aspects of audio engineering without ever discussing tradeoffs of equipment and other threads dicussed here on our forum. I highly recommend audiophiles check 'em out.

Warm Regards, Michael
 
Yes I guess it might be difficult to get all the info on a single DVD. Several DVDs giving hours of info. That would be one hell of a "must own". A seperate DVD for each section.

The sound version of "Hollywood Camera Works".
 
Cryogenic... thanks for pointing out that I mentioned this in another thread. I'm sure that's what spawned this thread... which was started the very next day.

Here's the bottom line for what I had in mind for the sound portion of what I had planned to do. Basically I'd set up a scene... shoot it with two cams... one wide with a century on the cam so that you can see everything... the other cam framing normally so that the boom is out of the shot. This way you can see how tight the boom needs to be for a given sound quality... I'd even show what poor boom technique does to the sound on the same scene... then maybe lav the same scene.

I'd also give a brief rundown on what mics I currently use and the ones I've had in the past... I'd show and explain all my windscreens and mounts and maybe I could get Jeremy to send me back my Windtech just for this test... because all the people who think a BBG isn't worth the money can hear the difference in a $40-$50 foam screen versus the BBG... you can use an ordinary fan and CLEARLY hear the performance difference in screens.

The gist is that if I do a DVD it would be aimed at newbies... many of the members who have higher experience may find parts of it to be pointless while others would have breakthrough moments just by finally "getting it". The inspiration for me is in the same questions that I get over and over.

I think as it relates to newbies that you absolutely could get all the pertinent info on a single disk. My original thought was to offer a DVD that discloses every little tip I can think of for all parts of indi-style production... not just audio... but again... all aimed at newbies.
 
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MattinSTL said:
maybe I could get Jeremy to send me back my Windtech just for this test...
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Dude, I will hit the UPS store today:) ... c'mon, Jeremy is slack about mailing things, I would think you would know this by now.:thumbup:
 
:huh: :thumbup: :undecided :shocked: :thumbsup: :laugh:

hahaha! Oh my, starting off the morning like this is ridiculously exciting.

Matt, any thoughts about a collaboration between others to make these series of DVDs? I'm not sure if everybody agrees to meet at a place for several days to weeks for bringing these projects altogether. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Your take on making something productive that is targeting the newcomers and starters is a wonderful idea. Even if we did produce DVDs that professionals won't find it necessary to get it, it's still a great idea to cover every topic about indy-productions. Huge project I bet!

MattinSTL said:
There's a phrase that doesn't sound so good... but it fits... "gang-banging"... any news/eng guys know what I'm talking about... :grin: :huh:
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Rather than trying to cover every subject in one set of DVDs, how about producing a series of single-topic DVDs that could be purchased individually as they become available. So you might have a DVD that just covers boom technique, for example. Another that deals with choosing the right mic for the job, etc. It might make it easier for numerous people to contribute based on their expertise. Just a thought.

-Dan
 
MattinSTL said:
Cryogenic... thanks for pointing out that I mentioned this in another thread. I'm sure that's what spawned this thread... which was started the very next day.
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Sorry I should have give you the credit for mentioning it first. I read you post and was relaxing in the bath thinking about it. To my knowledge there isn't a thorough DVD set out there which covers all bases, and the next day I posted that it would be a great idea for the experienced guys on here to perhaps get togeether and make a DVD (or a set of DVDs) which not only helped budding sound guys, but also the majority of film makers who no doubt struggle with sound. And of course in process of making the DVD set, make a good whack out of it as well as the kudos for making the Sound DVD set everyone wants to own.

I should have mentioned in my first post that MattinSTL got me thinking about this.
Hopefully it will come to fruition.
 
So, what's everyone's thoughts on topics for a DVD? Here's the fisrt ones that come to my mind:

1. Sound basics
2. Microphones
3. Speakers
4. Amplication
5. Mixing
6. Recording
7. Audio effects
8. Post-production
9. Equipment configuations
10. Environmental conditions
11. Music, loops, special effects
12. Distribution media
13. Consumer playback device considerations
14. Tips, Tricks, Traps
15. Audio engineer's role/responsibility
16. The future - new directions

I wonder how these topics would track compared to courses offered by others. Most are more techical/theory as opposed to hands-on. This begs the question for the DVD - who would be the target audience? To make enough sales to be viable, I assume it would be geared for the pro-sumer. Would it be limited to video applications, or include other hot areas such as podcasting/vodcasting, internet audiocasts/videocasts, etc? BTW - I thought DV Creators.net did a good job with their DV Enlightenment on one DVD but there's soooo much more to doing audio correctly.

Warm Regards, Michael
 
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Seems to me like it would be a VERY LONG tutorial if you want to cover sound from production through post. There are about 12 different workflow scenarios you can use, and there is a bunch to know about each step. Not for the faint hearted. I think making a DVD would be a waste of time. It would only be able to gloss over certain aspects. If you want to learn sound. Go to school. Get a sound engineering degree, and then get out there and start working. That's the true way to learn.

-Dave
 
I think Matt's original concept was not to explain the "how" of sound but rather the "why". We talk about polar patterns, sensitivity, handling noise, wind protection, etc. a lot on this board, but some people are not going to "get it" unless they get a chance to see and hear it done right and wrong.

Number one question asked: "What's the best camera-mounted shotgun mic for under a $100?" (or some variation thereof)

Number two: "Um, why did you say don't camera mount, list a hyper instead of a shot, and add a zero to my budget? I don't think you guys understand."
 
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