Sony PXW-X70 - 4K upgrade is the LOWEST bitrate in the industry today!

C

Cliff_622

New member
About Sony's proposed PXW X70's 4K 60Mbp/s UHD update....


I did some research on many other 4k UHD camera models on the market under $2,500. I found none of them with a bitrate this low...not even one low end, entry-level model. The most common bitrate is 100Mbp/s with a direct competing JVC camcorder that does 150Mbp/s.


So, from a purely factual point of view, (not my opinion at all) the Sony PXW X70 at 60Mbp/s statistically provides THE actual lowest bitrate for ANY UHD camcorder in the industry today. In other words, no other manufacturer including Sony is currently using this low of a bitrate. (This includes all "cheap" consumer market models too)


I'm a HUGE Sony fan and I hate to say this it's just a simple statistical fact.


I think the rest of the industry with Panasonic, Canon and JVC have easily shown that 100Mbp/s is a basic UHD requirement. Even the tiny Sony Action Cam and the extremely low cost, enrty-level consumer UHD Handycam AX300 have 100Mbp/s. (As well as the X70's sister model, the Handycam AX100)


I really hope Sony will be able to publically announce 100Mbp/s UHD for the XDCAM PXW-X70 in a future upgrade soon. It really is a shame that the X70 will literally sit at the very BOTTOM of the industry camcorder list in 4K (UHD) codec bitrates.


Sony, please dont do this to the XDCAM brand name. It's embarrassing for a camera like this to be so far below every other "Pro" or "Consumer" 4k camcorder in the industry.








 
Osslund said:
Why anyone would buy the X70 is a mystery.
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It's a nice little "grab and go" compact camcorder. It certainly is not a replacement for a Sony FS7 or any super35 camcorder.

It's actually not as bad of a camera as you might think. It's very sharp with "decent" dynamic range and if it's like it's 4K AX100 cousin, the resolution and image detail will be extremely high. (Yes,..Highlight handling can be harsh if you are not watching for it)

One of it's best features is convenience. If I was a war journalist in Iraq, this would definitely be the camcorder I would want to run around Bagdad with. (I would not to lug around my EX1r or an FS7 like that)

Have you ever used one?
 
so folks, how does that bitrate translate to the real world? what does the 4k LOOK like? i tried the cam out locally, shot some footage and looked at it at home. two big issues i had with the cam:

-the very slow manual focus ring (i.e takes forever to go from one end of focus range to other) and i did think the image was a tad soft compared to the EX1, which i am used to looking at, though this could have been pilot error, i suppose.

sharpness issue i could maybe live with, manual focus thing is no good...i feel like im often in situations where i need to adjust focus manually and quickly and i would regret having to deal with that issue.
 
The camera is not super sharp on factory settings, but can be dialed in much sharper. Remember that it's a $2K camera. Given the 10-bit 4:2:2 color, 24 bit sound, 1 inch sensor, etc. I don't know of a better camera for $2K or less. That's why I bought it. If my budget was $5K I'd have probably bought something else.

I'm not happy about the low bit rate on the upcoming 4K, but the one video posted has great detail. Of course, that sample has pretty static content and pretty static camera movement, and the 4K has no 60p no 10 bit no 4:2:2 and crops the field of view slightly. If the new BlackMagic Video Assist turns out to be as good as its specs that might be a better $500 spent than the 4K upgrade. The Video Assist has a 5" monitor, SDI input (which the X70 has) and records ProRes @60p to SDXC cards. It will be interesting to see.
 
Judging between the bitrate difference between 60Mbp/s and 100Mbp/s on the X70's consumer sister ccamera, the HandyCam AX100...there is a significant difference.

60Mbp/s will get "soft" on the highest details, especially in motion areas. 100Mbp/s holds those moving details FAR better. Really the difference is VERY easy to see in frame by frame viewing.

Also, 60Mbp/s does not grade well at all. Even under light grading, it falls apart quickly. Just a little stretching it or bending and artifacts pop out from everywhere. (especially in the shadows) 100 Mbp/s will break too but it is far more durable and survives allot more pushing in post. It's just not even close.

My point is: This is a Sony PXW-X70 "XDCAM" branded Professional market camcorder. It should NOT have a codec bitrate that is lower than EVERY other "consumer" 4K camera on the market today. It should NOT be at the VERY BOTTOM on the competition list. In other words,...no "HandyCam" or "Action Cam" should have a FAR better codec that any "XDCAM" model.

I dont think it's possible for anybody to disagree with this concept...not even Sony.

CT
 
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Ebrahim Saadawi said:
The good news is: Sony acknowledge it and officially state it's coming.

http://www.newsshooter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Screen-Shot-2015-02-24-at-11.58.33-PM.png
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Sony has worded it in two different ways. The other is something similar to: "We are exploring the possibility of other bit rates"

Sony has not officially committed to 100Mbp/s, they have only officially committed to 60Mbp/s....at bit rate is WELL BELOW even the most basic, entry level consumer UHD standards.

I'm hoping that Sony will find this fact (the X70 is the lowest bitrate UHD in the entire industry) to be publicly embarrassing and make the decision to raise it to meet all the other enrty-level UHD cameras in the industry. (Panasonic, Canon, JVC and EVERY OTHER Sony model use 100Mbp/s or higher)

Me and friend of mine are just doing our best to add some healthy P.R. pressure on Sony. ;-)
 
Cliff_622 said:
Sony has worded it in two different ways. The other is something similar to: "We are exploring the possibility of other bit rates"

Sony has not officially committed to 100Mbp/s, they have only officially committed to 60Mbp/s....at bit rate is WELL BELOW even the most basic, entry level consumer UHD standards.

I'm hoping that Sony will find this fact (the X70 is the lowest bitrate UHD in the entire industry) to be publicly embarrassing and make the decision to raise it to meet all the other enrty-level UHD cameras in the industry. (Panasonic, Canon, JVC and EVERY OTHER Sony model use 100Mbp/s or higher)

Me and friend of mine are just doing our best to add some healthy P.R. pressure on Sony. ;-)
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Anyone read anything on why there's a problem with higher bit rates with this cam? Seems incredible odd considering the AX100 already does 100mbs. :Drogar-BlackEye(DBG
 
John Godden said:
Anyone read anything on why there's a problem with higher bit rates with this cam? Seems incredible odd considering the AX100 already does 100mbs. :Drogar-BlackEye(DBG
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I spoke to a Sony rep recently at AbelCine and they told me the issue was heat generation.
 
With the Canon XC10 looking so much better on the available footage I see very little reason to ever consider the X70. The AX100 is cheaper and provides better IQ at a lower cost so the X70 is in a weird spot.
 
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