Sony Promises No New CineAlta Production Camera at NAB
- Thread starter starcentral
- Start date
Sony F5 is *almost* in the $12,000-$15,000 range! All Sony needs to do is announce a few thousand dollars price drop at NAB, and they'll have filled in the gap.
$16.5K: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/898427-REG/Sony_PMW_F5_CineAlta_Digital_Cinema.html
It has been a while since they updated their Sony NEX-VG series of E cameras. That would provide a good alternative to either a FS5 or an A7s mk2 / A6300
spinkscapes
Well-known member
It is a three year old offering though.
Even Canon are going to struggle to convince prospective buyers to shell out a similar amount for the original C500 if the C300 mkII is priced at a similar point after NAB 2016.
Grug
Veteran
It maybe three years old now, but with all of the updates the F5 has received, it's on par (and in several ways, goes beyond) every other mid-range offering on the market. The Varicam LT and Scarlet-W (brand spanking new as they are) are the first cameras to actually enter that same mid-range space as the F5, and even three years down the track - they not really offering 'more' than the Sony spec-wise, they're just doing things a little differently.
The F5 has basically had the mid-range camera market completely to itself these past couple of years, but what would Sony further update or change with it at the moment? It basically does everything the Varicam LT does (more actually with the R5, though minus 5000 ISO and MLUTs in playback/HFR). And (paired with the R5) it's also pretty much even with Scarlet-W, which offers a great feature-set too, but compared to 3:1 compressed Sony Raw, is unlikely to offer superior image quality, especially for HFR where the Scarlet's compression ratios skyrocket.
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starcentral
Veteran
Back in 2012 when Sony released it's marketing for "The New F", they weren't kidding when they said the future ahead of schedule. Hard to believe the F5/F55 are 3 years old this month in fact… and more is planned and in store for them with add-on boards, replacement external R modules, and who knows what else is up their sleeve.
If one scans various Sony mirrorless hybrids such as A7RII/SII, one can imagine a $5,000-$7,000 camera with a A7RII sensor in its s35 form (i.e., an identical spec to the s35 crop rather than a full frame 42 MPX) and a similar auto-focus to A6300/A7RII. That already exists in their $1,000-$3,000 units. Now, if they add a camcorder size body, more programmable buttons for those who loathe their existing menu systems, 10-bit 4K out via HDMI 2.0a, internal XAVC 480 that is feasible with the new SD cards, how much more can they charge? I figure, their manufacturing costs - unless they go to a magnesium body and install some expensive heat sinks - will be only marginally higher than for the A7RII, which can currently be had for around $2,500 on eBay.
The other way to look at it is that manufacturing costs for Sony can't be far different than for the new BMD Mini 4.6K. In fact, because BMD has to buy pretty much all of its parts off the shelf while Sony develops its own sensors and other components and can make bulk purchases for the memory, the FPGA chips and so on, its direct costs will be even lower. So, theoretically, it could release its own version of Ursa Mini 4.6 tomorrow for less than BMD. It won't do that, obviously. But it could, had it wanted to.
TV/cable/streaming networks must be making their purchasing decisions some time by June-July. At that point, they buy the "battle tested" cameras for their projected endeavors. Sony can then wait that period out with their current lineup, given that F55 is more than capable for any 4K required programming. It can then announce the new Cine Alta line in October, deliver it it by February, have the reviews in by April, sell them in June-July in 2017.
PS. Having an own studio doesn't hurt either. Well known DP's have the gear of their choice but, for most of those working on the Sony lot, corporate loyalty isn't anything to frown upon.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
A year and a half old now, isn't it? (OK, Ursa Mini is technically a year old itself ... wink-wink, nudge-nudge). Spec-wise, BMD is offering an oversampled 4K (from ~ 12 MPX rather than from 8.8), internal/external Raw, ProRes and, if you count the EVF, it does it for about $1,500 less. Nice image too (provided their quality control hasn't gone to dogs).
filmguy123
Veteran
The FS7 was announced less than 2.5 years after the FS700
It's been 1.5 years since the FS7
Sony is moving at a breakneck pace
I'm sure they've got something in that middle tier price bracket up their sleeve... just not sure what. I think a FF version of the FS7 or an upgraded FS7 would be great.
It's been 1.5 years since the FS7
Sony is moving at a breakneck pace
I'm sure they've got something in that middle tier price bracket up their sleeve... just not sure what. I think a FF version of the FS7 or an upgraded FS7 would be great.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Sony would suggest that Prores is for losers.. their own codec is way more efficient. Add some ND filtration and you burn your $1500 - if I were sony Id not be sweating.
Also I dont know the card costs.. neither XQD or Cfast are cheap but if you want to tool up for 4 hours of 4k check the costs - that $1500 might be severely eaten. Especially if you pay for DIT time and backup discs.
BMC needs vlocks too does it not? I spent $3k on them.
S
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Run&Gun
Veteran
If you read between the lines, yes. And I agree with you on efficiency, too. I added the ProRes/DNxHD board to my 55 last summer because people were still constantly asking for ProRes. I think I've recorded ProRes internally ONCE since having it installed. One of my first shoots after getting the camera back from Sony was a 4k/UHD shoot for a client from Germany. They wanted ProRes, but Sony only wants you using ProRes in HD(and NO slo-mo). Now most of my clients seem to be able to handle XAVC with no problems. It's a nice selling point to be able to say my camera can record all of these different codecs, but I can't say that it's the best $2K I've ever spent adding that board, especially since it's so limited in frame rates/resolution.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
Part of the reason Sony only offers ProRes in HD is because a 4K ProRes would only fit maybe 10 minutes on a standard SxS card. Not too useful.
For ProRes recording at 4K/UHD/2K/HD from the F5/F55, the Odyssey7Q+ is an excellent choice. It can record up to 4K60p and the SSDs are vastly less expensive than Sony's media. Plus it is an excellent OLED monitor with a LUT routing system that includes presets for S-Log2 and S-Log3, as well as numerous other advanced monitoring tools unavailable on the cameras.
For ProRes recording at 4K/UHD/2K/HD from the F5/F55, the Odyssey7Q+ is an excellent choice. It can record up to 4K60p and the SSDs are vastly less expensive than Sony's media. Plus it is an excellent OLED monitor with a LUT routing system that includes presets for S-Log2 and S-Log3, as well as numerous other advanced monitoring tools unavailable on the cameras.
spinkscapes
Well-known member
I'm sure I heard these exact words stated when there was a long gap in a much needed firmware update on their Blackmagic Production camera (Cinema Camera?) after release.
Your arguments are Sony vs. BMD, which work up to the point someone says, "But I like the BMD image better". My argument is for Sony vs. Sony, where I have brought up the fact that their low/medium priced consumer cameras have features that their pro cameras do not have and that is due to the overlapping cycles in a rapidly changing technological sector. So, when someone wonders what Sony can do at this very moment, I say that the least it can do is to merge its latest advancements in one model.
My second point is that, from the manufacturing angle, models with a similar sensor and a similar performance must have similar costs because all components - sensors, logic boards, memory, storage - are priced at market rates and thus any premium one pays for a given quality is the price of preference. One can look at the external monitors/recorders, for example. Three major competing companies in the low-mid sector - Video Devices, Convergent Design and Atomos - have very competitive pricing and set of features in their lineups and, when one looks at two similarly featured models, their prices are indeed very close to one another. The same should technically apply to the camera world, meaning that if BMD can deliver a 15-stop, 4.6K camera with an EVF, internal/external Raw and ProRes for around $6,500, then every camera manufacturer should be able to deliver their own model with these features for around the same price as well. And Sony is surely among those companies. As are Canon, Nikon, JVC, ARRI, Red and Panasonic and whoever else wants to toss its hat in the ring.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
My 'argument' lost it's track - deviating to cost of ownership.
simply I was saying that if the $1500 goes on the Nd - the two cams bring the same amount of tech per dollar.
as for the codec/look - I don't know - you could argue the bmc is just good.. Compared not just against the fs7 but the 5/55 c300 too - is that codec or secret sauce - I don't know.
simply I was saying that if the $1500 goes on the Nd - the two cams bring the same amount of tech per dollar.
as for the codec/look - I don't know - you could argue the bmc is just good.. Compared not just against the fs7 but the 5/55 c300 too - is that codec or secret sauce - I don't know.