Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

J

JediLee

Member
Hey anyone read the press release on sony's hd cam? it could be old news to everyone but its dated back to november. anyway it says it can record HDV, DVCAM and DV images at 60i, 50i, 30, 25 or 24 frames per second, in either SD or HD and is to be out in Feb.05. says it will be $4900. here is the link:

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/5327
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

That's kind of the whole point of this section of the forum . . . ::)
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

And, again, it is *not* a 24P camera, nor is it 25P nor is it 30P. That's misleading terminology in Sony's press release (or deceptive marketing, take your pick).
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

I'd say a good amount of both Barry ;D

Being a recent owner of the XL2, I had to take a trip down to B&H to test out this Cineframe mode in person to see how it stacks up to the XL2's true progressive. Indeed, it didn't stack too high ... :-/

Upon hearing of the debut of the FX1 and the Z1, I started wondering if purchasing the XL2 was a "not so good" decision seeing how these cams are the glimpse of the supposed future and whats to come. Well, I have to say that I am even happier with my XL2 after seeing and using the FX1. I'm real big on progressive and seeing how jumpy and strobey the FX1 was in cineframe mode just totally turned me off from the camera. Don't get me wrong ... my initial use of this camera revealed a pretty nice image quality to the eye, but it is really nice looking video and not the "psuedo film" look that progressive at 24 frames can provide. And that was one MAJOR reason in purchasing a camera, so the XL2 made a really good choice in that regard. If you don't care about progressive, than these HDV cameras may float your boat ... but I for one would wait a little to see how the workflow improves with HDV as there really is no viable platform to distribute what you've shot with it or even display your work (unless you wanna carry around your camera with an HD set) ;D
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

lol ... indeed it does ;)

By no means am I saying anything bad about the FX1 ... I haven't used it far long enough to make any definitive conclusions, especially as I was only really interested in testing out and analyzing the Cineframe modes ...

All I can say is that from what I've seen in regards to Cineframe, if you are looking into getting a cam that can give you that "film" looking footage, the FX1 boat sank deep into the ocean in comparison to what the DVX/XL2 can provide. Actually, its as if the FX1 never even left the dock ...

But as I said, from intial looks, the footage that comes out of if does look pretty nice. But don't expect anywhere close to the motion rendering progressive provides with this camera.
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

[quote author=mgalvan link=board=sony;num=1103529986;start=0#4 date=12/20/04 at 11:40:25]I'd say a good amount of both Barry  ;D

Being a recent owner of the XL2, I had to take a trip down to B&H to test out this Cineframe mode in person to see how it stacks up to the XL2's true progressive.  Indeed, it didn't stack too high ...  :-/

Upon hearing of the debut of the FX1 and the Z1, I started wondering if purchasing the XL2 was a "not so good" decision seeing how these cams are the glimpse of the supposed future and whats to come.  Well, I have to say that I am even happier with my XL2 after seeing and using the FX1.  I'm real big on progressive and seeing how jumpy and strobey the FX1 was in cineframe mode just totally turned me off from the camera.  Don't get me wrong ... my initial use of this camera revealed a pretty nice image quality to the eye, but it is really nice looking video and not the "psuedo film" look that progressive at 24 frames can provide.  And that was one MAJOR reason in purchasing a camera, so the XL2 made a really good choice in that regard.  If you don't care about progressive, than these HDV cameras may float your boat ... but I for one would wait a little to see how the workflow improves with HDV as there really is no viable platform to distribute what you've shot with it or even display your work (unless you wanna carry around your camera with an HD set)  ;D[/quote]

I'd be curious to know if the strobing went away if you played with shutter settings.
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

Are you guys for real? You teste dit in the store? Did you use 24 or 30 CF mode? Did you turn on the film gamma settings? Custom settings?

The FX1 in 30CF mode with teh film gamma settings BLOWS away my DVX, and I liek it MUCH better than the XL2 I tried out. Also, you do not need an HD set to show yoru footage. I shoot in HDC mode every single day for important projects. I edit in FCP just as easily as I do with any other DV footage. I then out put to DVD and the resulting DVD is MUCH better than ANY I have made with my DVX or Xl2!

MUCH MUCH cleaner picture, NO noise, deeper blacks, and smooth motion at 30CF.

The picture difference is amazing. I get no jaggies at all.

Its amazing, and you do not need an HD set to even use this in HDV mode. You also do not need any special editing software as any will do. shoot in hdv only, 30cf and use the custom settings and gamma.

Why all of this false information? EVerytime I see a negative about teh FX1 its from someone who tried it at a store, or didnt learn how to use it.

It gives MUCH cleaner images in low light and normal light. NO jaggies at all, ever in HDV mode (Which is all I shoot in for my normal 4X3 TV and DVD output)

I was never 100% happy with the DVX, I also had the DVC-30 and have owned the Xl1, and tried the XL2.

Ive also owned the SOny PD150 and VX1000, 2000, TRV900, 950

The FX1 is my favorite DV camera EVER. The handling, controls, build, lens, HDV/DV modes, and overall picture quality are amazing.

Also, again, you do not need a HD TV to use this camera. The images on 4X3 standard TV's is MUCH nicer than any DV cam I have owned.
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

i assume it's worth waiting for. i've made a very good choice
when i bought my first DV back in 1997, so i trust Sony with
this product.
back in 1997 it was a pure gamble, but today we're waiting
eagerly for HD cameras with such low prices.

all my cameras since then were Sony (DSR 300, PD 150, PD 1, VX9000).
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

[quote author=videoman69 link=board=sony;num=1103529986;start=0#7 date=12/28/04 at 15:25:58]Are you guys for real? You teste dit in the store? Did you use 24 or 30 CF mode? Did you turn on the film gamma settings? Custom settings?

The FX1 in 30CF mode with teh film gamma settings BLOWS away my DVX, and I liek it MUCH better than the XL2 I tried out. Also, you do not need an HD set to show yoru footage. I shoot in HDC mode every single day for important projects. I edit in FCP just as easily as I do with any other DV footage. I then out put to DVD and the resulting DVD is MUCH better than ANY I have made with my DVX or Xl2!

MUCH MUCH cleaner picture, NO noise, deeper blacks, and smooth motion at 30CF.

The picture difference is amazing. I get no jaggies at all.

Its amazing, and you do not need an HD set to even use this in HDV mode. You also do not need any special editing software as any will do. shoot in hdv only, 30cf and use the custom settings and gamma.

Why all of this false information? EVerytime I see a negative about teh FX1 its from someone who tried it at a store, or didnt learn how to use it.

It gives MUCH cleaner images in low light and normal light. NO jaggies at all, ever in HDV mode (Which is all I shoot in for my normal 4X3 TV and DVD output)

I was never 100% happy with the DVX, I also had the DVC-30 and have owned the Xl1, and tried the XL2.

Ive also owned the SOny PD150 and VX1000, 2000, TRV900, 950

The FX1 is my favorite DV camera EVER. The handling, controls, build, lens, HDV/DV modes, and overall picture quality are amazing.

Also, again, you do not need a HD TV to use this camera. The images on 4X3 standard TV's is MUCH nicer than any DV cam I have owned.

[/quote]

Hi videoman69,

Your post confuses me like the look of this face ???

You claim that you don't need any special editing software for editing HDV but from what I know, no NLE natively supports the format yet. Can someone verify this?

Also, my comments were restricted to the cineframe modes as that is the only thing I really looked at. I can't make any comments or conclusions about the camera in general because I haven't messed with it enough to do so. BUT I can tell you that cineframe is not smooth at all. I'm sure Barry can attest to that ... just read some of his posts in regards to it ....

If the camera makes you happy, than good for you, it obviously serves your purpose. But I am only trying to relay what I've seen in regards to the camera ....
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

I should also further clarify that I specifically looked at cineframe 24. Cineframe 30, I really didn't look at so that could be smooth .... 8)
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

McGalvan,
I do understand what you are saying.

I have owned an FX1 since it was launched and absolutely love it. But there are problems at the moment with editing in HD. Lumierehd.com plugin is out but does not yet allow record to tape, and they seem to be taking an age to get there.

I do all my editing on a mac with FCP 4.5 HD, but have to edit in SD, then burn to dvd in DVD Studio Pro 3. The results are superb though. Yes, it's standard def but the quality of the picture really is top notch. On playback from tape to my HD Plasma, the results are simply stunning.

But the software isn't ready yet to edit in HD, and of course Blu Ray is still in the distance, if it comes out at all. I would imagine there will be an update in FCP in the not too distant future which will allow HD editing through the whole timeline.

As for 24p, well yes the FX1 doesn't have it, but I have the PAL version and Cineframe 25 looks OK and the CF50 excellent. Remember, you can always do the film look in post prod with filters.
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

It might be a good camera. The price might also bring down the XL2 and the DVX price. I'm looking to buy in about 2 or 2 months. Having HD would be a plus, but so would a cheaper XL2!
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

What does Sony mean by, "cinema like"? So I take it just recording in 24p is not true 24p? Does this mean it could not be blow up for the big screen?

Sony's website says "cineframe 24 meter 3:2 pulldown function"

It also says, "precision 16:9 SD DV recording"

and 16:9 native.

Good or bad?
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

Cineframe 24 is NOT true 24p. It uses some sort of field blending to achieve the look. And yes, it is native 16:9, which is good if you are looking to shoot ... well ... 16:9 ;D
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

[quote author=Steve_Shovlar link=board=sony;num=1103529986;start=0#11 date=12/29/04 at 07:14:16]McGalvan,
I do understand what you are saying.

I have owned an FX1 since it was launched and absolutely love it. But there are problems at the moment with editing in HD. Lumierehd.com plugin is out but does not yet allow record to tape, and they seem to be taking an age to get there.

I do all my editing on a mac with FCP 4.5 HD, but have to edit in SD, then burn to dvd in DVD Studio Pro 3. The results are superb though. Yes, it's standard def but the quality of the picture really is top notch. On playback from tape to my HD Plasma, the results are simply stunning.

But the software isn't ready yet to edit in HD, and of course Blu Ray is still in the distance, if it comes out at all. I would imagine there will be an update in FCP in the not too distant future which will allow HD editing through the whole timeline.

As for 24p, well yes the FX1 doesn't have it, but I have the PAL version and Cineframe 25 looks OK and the CF50 excellent. Remember, you can always do the film look in post prod with filters.
[/quote]

Hey videoman69, are you editing yuour footage the same way as Steve is here ... editing it in SD? FCP doesn't natively handle HDV yet.
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

[quote author=mgalvan link=board=sony;num=1103529986;start=0#9 date=12/29/04 at 07:01:06]

You claim that you don't need any special editing software for editing HDV but from what I know, no NLE natively supports the format yet.  Can someone verify this?....[/quote]

Yes, Sony Vegas 5.0 edits HDV just fine.
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

No, it doesn't. It does HD, but not HD. I'm sure it will very soon, though.
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

[quote author=Zim link=board=sony;num=1103529986;start=0#12 date=12/29/04 at 07:24:48]It might be a good camera. The price might also bring down the XL2 and the DVX price. I'm looking to buy in about 2 or 2 months. Having HD would be a plus, but so would a cheaper XL2![/quote]
The XL2 has already come down. A month or so ago it was selling for pretty much retail at B&H, but since then they dropped it to 4499 and most recently I believe it's gone to 4299. I don't know if it's directly traceable to the Sony HDV cameras (since the HDV price also dropped, initially it was a firm $3700 but now it's down to $3299) but, whatever the reason, these excellent cameras are now more affordable than before.
 
Re: Sony Press Release: 24p HD cam w/loads more

[quote author=Zim link=board=sony;num=1103529986;start=0#13 date=12/29/04 at 07:30:14]What does Sony mean by, "cinema like"? So I take it just recording in 24p is not true 24p? Does this mean it could not be blow up for the big screen? [/quote]
Well, technically you could blow it up, yes. But the motion rendition is very odd, almost erratic. It wouldn't look good. It doesn't look good on the small screen, and magnifying that wouldn't make it look better.

If you were going for a film blowup from an FX1 or Z1, I'd highly recommend to skip the Cineframe 24. From an NTSC FX1 you'd be better off to shoot in 60i and use DVFilm Maker to convert it, or let DVFilm do the conversion for you. From the Z1, I suspect you'll get better results from using Cineframe 25 and slowing down to 24p, but it's possible DVFilm Maker would do a better job from 50i material.

Sony's website says "cineframe 24 meter 3:2 pulldown function"
Click to expand...
Yes, Sony's camera does employ 3:2 pulldown. The problem is, it generates its 24 frames "wrong"... it then applies 3:2 pulldown onto those "wrong" frames. So it's not the same, and doesn't look the same, as actual 24fps capture.

It also says, "precision 16:9 SD DV recording"
Click to expand...
Yes, when in DV mode you can record in 16:9, or also in 4:3, your choice.

and 16:9 native.
Click to expand...
Yes, the FX1 is actually the only 1/3" CCD camera on the market that has a 16:9-shaped CCD.

Good or bad?
Click to expand...
The FX1 takes a pretty good 16:9 DV image. It's competitive with the XL2's 16:9 DV, although it's less light-sensitive than the XL2 is, and much less sensitive than the reigning low-light champs, the PD170 and DVX. If your priority is 16:9 shooting, and you want a 16:9 DV camera, the FX1 does a good job of it, but you do need to bring up the light levels to get the best picture.
 
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