Sony PMW-X70

demoboy said:
I've had my eyes on this camera as well. The X70 is by far the best small format camcorder to come. At $2,300 with 10-bit 4:2:2 with SDI out is just absolutely the best news for documentary filmmakers. We get ND's, Zeiss Zoom, LANC, Phantom on the XLR, upgrade to 4K?! I'm willing to bet it's same sensor as the AX100 but with a better chipset. I'm even stretching to say that you get the same optical quality from both cameras aside from compression, and with 10bit on the X70 for about $500 bucks more it's well worth it. I can color grade pretty good and I'd be fine with the AX100, but for SDI out and a 4K future upgrade I think it's a steal. Plus I think the X70's form factor or ergonomic has better resale value as an official XDCAM. Also Panasonic just introduced their new 4K camcorder at $3,400 but there are no specs whatsoever with bit depth, so I'm going to assume that it's just 8-bit 4:2:0. It's a no brainer, go with an X70!!! What do you guys think?
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Right now (based on specs only) the X70 looks significantly more compelling to me.
 
demoboy said:
I've had my eyes on this camera as well. The X70 is by far the best small format camcorder to come. At $2,300 with 10-bit 4:2:2 with SDI out is just absolutely the best news for documentary filmmakers. We get ND's, Zeiss Zoom, LANC, Phantom on the XLR, upgrade to 4K?! I'm willing to bet it's same sensor as the AX100 but with a better chipset. I'm even stretching to say that you get the same optical quality from both cameras aside from compression, and with 10bit on the X70 for about $500 bucks more it's well worth it. I can color grade pretty good and I'd be fine with the AX100, but for SDI out and a 4K future upgrade I think it's a steal. Plus I think the X70's form factor or ergonomic has better resale value as an official XDCAM. Also Panasonic just introduced their new 4K camcorder at $3,400 but there are no specs whatsoever with bit depth, so I'm going to assume that it's just 8-bit 4:2:0. It's a no brainer, go with an X70!
Click to expand...

+1
 
demoboy said:
I've had my eyes on this camera as well. The X70 is by far the best small format camcorder to come. At $2,300 with 10-bit 4:2:2 with SDI out is just absolutely the best news for documentary filmmakers. We get ND's, Zeiss Zoom, LANC, Phantom on the XLR, upgrade to 4K?! I'm willing to bet it's same sensor as the AX100 but with a better chipset. I'm even stretching to say that you get the same optical quality from both cameras aside from compression, and with 10bit on the X70 for about $500 bucks more it's well worth it. I can color grade pretty good and I'd be fine with the AX100, but for SDI out and a 4K future upgrade I think it's a steal. Plus I think the X70's form factor or ergonomic has better resale value as an official XDCAM. Also Panasonic just introduced their new 4K camcorder at $3,400 but there are no specs whatsoever with bit depth, so I'm going to assume that it's just 8-bit 4:2:0. It's a no brainer, go with an X70!!! What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

I think you re totally right! I was looking the AX100 as a replacement for my Canon XF100, but the X70 seems to be a much better deal...if only it had 4K from the start...firmware upgrades can be a pain if you re not in the US...:(
Anybody knows when that upgrade will be available?
 
lyrov said:
I think you re totally right! I was looking the AX100 as a replacement for my Canon XF100, but the X70 seems to be a much better deal...if only it had 4K from the start...firmware upgrades can be a pain if you re not in the US...:(
Anybody knows when that upgrade will be available?
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The quasi-reviews have used words like "future" and "next year" when describing this firmware option.
 
I will write some more as to why the X70 is definitely a camera to consider for the price value and no brainer. These will definitely go out of stock just watch! Believe me, had Sony suggested $3,200 as the MSRP people would still BUY it!! Consider the fact that Panasonic did not offer AVC-Ultra to their new HC-X1000 and that cam is going to be around $3,500. Sure it's equipped with 4K already capture and perhaps the same design as the GH4 minus the sensor, but it's still 8-bit 4:2:0. If you want to get a good idea as to what 8-bit 4:2:0 handles clipping check out Sony's promo video for the A7s when a lens hits a blue spot light representing a set from a music video. The color curve just clips and the roll off efff it looks nasty from the center of the spot light.

First: 10-bit 4:2:2 @Full HD (& 4K?)
There's no cam on the market with this compression capture at this price with SDI out. The only camera with a similar ergonomic and SDI output is Canon's 8-bit 4:2:2 XA25 with a smaller sensor. The only real thing going for the XA25 is the 20x Zoom Canon glass which does well against chromatic aberration at max zoom. However, wouldn't you rather save $200 on a newer cam with industry-pro-standard-ideal-compression like 10-bit 4:2:2 vs an older camera that will never have a firmware upgrade to 4K and suffering from worse compression?

Second: 4K Upgrade
The debate regarding 4K is long gone. People that still dismiss it are only missing out on the better picture and color reproduction. Plus 4K has always provided nice benefits in post such as faking a 360 barrel roll if you don't mind fake parallax! For anyone not wanting to promote 4K for their own freelance business is not clearly seeing the advantages on how to market ''words.'' For wedding videographers 4K imagery is going to help you no matter what! Just learn to sell yourself. With Samsung offering an affordable 4K monitor at 10bit 1billion colors and newer monitors to come at a cheap price by the end of next year we will start to see the rise of youtube and vimeo culture 4K uploads at a big increase. Resell value for an ''XDCAM'' is always good. Having travelled around the world you learn that Sony is always pricey so if you play it smart you might even be able to sell it to a foreigner for the price you paid for it from the beginning (if you bought from the states). Come to think of it, and some of you might agree, but perhaps the reason why Sony is charging very cheap for the X70 is because they will charge a hefty premium on the upgrade to 4K. This theory seems about right, and to be honest I don't think anyone will argue about unless the price is absurd...

CONS
I'm starting to get into a lot of documentary work starting from 2013. What got my attention at the start of the year was Panasonic's consumer line V750 because it can do 100fps (PAL). The camera is only $650. For my insert shots of daily life and scenery 100fps is a nice touch for Documentary. I have not found any documentation that the X70 can do 100fps. Sony's 500 dollar cheaper model, the AX100, can capture 100fps at FullHD. 4K for A footage and FullHD minimum 100fps B footage. This is why that AX100 is such a great great camera for the value. The only downside is that it's only 8-bit 4:2:0. Maybe once the X70 gets the 4K firmware upgrade it will also be able to provide FullHD 100fps.

I already own two GH4's, and I captured more than 2TB of slow mo footage for a 13 episode reality tv show that was on primetime in Turkey. I also shot in 4K, but in my experience with my camera men DSLR's are just not ergonomic in a pro rush reality show environment. Zoom functionality and Auto Focus is the whole essence of good reality programming. This is my pro experience and opinion. The great new advent about pro camcorders starting 2013 was that sensor coverage and quality is getting better and more practical that many of us who shifted to DSLRs and poor rack focusing on rushed projects need not worry any more. Even Panasonic's lower end cams standardizing with BSI sensors show great results in low light. Just saying that camcorders are coming back!! Don't get me wrong I love primes for indie filmmaking, but if you can be a pro understand ergonomics that you're becoming a better jack of the trade for any project.
 
I'm also very interested in the X70 as an update to my XF100. If the X70 has the (NTSC models) 120fps when released, I'll order it right away. If it doesn't I'll wait for the 4K update to see what the specs and price are for that. Surely the camera will have the 120 fps either initially or as part of the 4K update.

I've also almost bought the Panasonic V750 to add some 120 fps.
 
I'm interested to see when the first customers gets theirs in the end of September and starts to show footage and write about the camera. On paper it looks very nice but every camera has its pitfalls. Better wait and see what the X70 is all about.
 
Right, never purchase a camera based on a spec sheet. The AX100 has been criticized for problems with the lens and moire.
 
Yeah but having trouble importing into FCP X???
That is a show stopper….
Don't know if it is Apple or Sony?
I have no trouble importing into FCP X from GH4, GH2 or sony RX10.
 
To me that still looks a bit mushy. It reminds me a bit of video from the RX100, smooth yet lacking in real detail. I've seen 4k from the AX100 and it looks very nice but this sample frame from the X70 looked like it wasn't resolving anywhere near a 1000 lines.
 
ATL Media Group said:
Looks like folks are getting it today...
http://www.hdwarrior.co.uk/2014/09/21/initial-thoughts-of-the-sony-pxw-x70-camcorder/

Impressive still frame from the 422 10bit.
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Thanks for the link

No LANC support was a very poor oversight in my opinion. If a lanc isn't important to you than this is obviously still an amazing looking option. 10 bit 4:2:2 internal recording on for $2299 camcorder still amazes me

Introduce Lanc control and a constant aperture lens, I don't think most people would balk at a $3000 price tag
 
Osslund said:
To me that still looks a bit mushy. It reminds me a bit of video from the RX100, smooth yet lacking in real detail. I've seen 4k from the AX100 and it looks very nice but this sample frame from the X70 looked like it wasn't resolving anywhere near a 1000 lines.
Click to expand...

totally agree - it looke terrible - about as sharp as the nex5n - completely consumer - which is a shame as I thought it was gonna be a great little cam.

maube the 4k will make ok 1080!
 
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