Sony PMW F55

Doug Jensen said:
Thank you for making my point. We know you don't want to be bothered with settings, choices, button, or very much decision-making. You'd rather just turn your camera on and shoot. I'll bet you are looking forward to having a self-driving car, too. Or is Uber driving you around good enough?

If you think your mirrorless camera is as complicated as a true professional cinema or ENG camera, then I would strongly disagree. Mirrorless cameras are kids toys compared to the menu options, features, functions, and external buttons you'll find a pro camcorder.
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I think you are being a little pointy here. Or ignorant on purpose.

I want a camera that I adjust iris, shutter angle, ND, fps, iso and colour temp and optionally have help adjusting focus position and some pots for audio level.

This is not about lack of control it is about having full control with no options accidentaly enter 'flower mode'. It is not point and shoot auto. Its about not having hunt for the controls to control the camera.

Alexas dont have other settings do they? (of course lut on/off bars to sdi yes/no et al)

Live broadcast cameras clearly may need a paint menu to match the scene to the broadcast medium.. a skilled job needing an extra layer of controls.
 
On a related note, BM's first camera had like one menu with ISO, WB and SS, lol.

There were a few other options I'm forgetting but it was truly barebones.

There wasn't even a battery meter until later (FW), so the camera just randomly shut off without knowing when (unless you powered it with a brick with lights).
 
LennyLevy said:
Well it seems to me that at least where I was in that conversation we were suggesting an FX6 which is not a mirrorless camera.
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In my opinion, the FX6 is about as close to a mirrorless camera as you will find -- without actually being a mirrorless camera. If you remove the handle, you've basically got an larger A7 series camera with a different menu system and built-in ND filters. Okay, that's oversimplifying, but in many ways the FX6 is more like an A7 than it is like the FX9 despite the outward appearances. There's no viewfinder and no viewfinder option. The FX6 only has 1/3 the paint menus of an FX9 so as to to befuddle people who don't want to learn anything about painting a camera. I was told by Sony that they needed a dumbed down cinema camera (not exactly their words) that would bridge the gap and appeal to people who just don't want to be bothered with changing settings or making decisions. The FX6 is about as close to a point-and-shoot cinema as can me made. That's what the market wants, and that's what Sony delivered. Hate it love it, the FX6 is exactly what many customers want.
 
Sorry if this is the wrong thread but does anyone know how to turn off flower mode on the Arriflex 35 BL? I must have activated it by accident and the client hates the look.
 
Joshua Milligan said:
I had a conversation about this exact subject just a couple weeks back with another videographer buddy of mine. I'm a little on the younger side (30), but in the 10 or 11 years I've been doing this I've always shot more "old school" per se. I probably use a tripod 10:1 vs my gimbal. It's not that I don't like gimbals. I certainly think they have their place. But I'm usually shooting on sticks, handheld with an Easyrig or am using something more controlled like a motion controlled slider. I could probably shoot most of my videos just on sticks with some handheld mixed in and would do fine.

But there is no question that there are young guys out there (younger than me) who are very good at getting creative motion in their videos. Way more so than I am. I like you struggle with precise framing with my gimbal while these guys are out there slinging their gimbals and cameras all over the place getting really unique shots. There's no denying that.

What I do see though is a lack of storytelling. "Fire content" as they like to call it has been given more importance than a story that has a beginning, middle and end. I think that YouTubers are responsible for that as they make their entire living on just getting cool shots and showing how they got those shots. But I don't see hardly any of them actually taking those shots and applying them to a marketing campaign for an actual company, or to a short film or doc project. It's really just more about looking cool on YT.[/QUOT

You hit the nail on the head - I also see a lack of Story Telling - I see wonderful images creatively executed but some of these videos lack focus - lack of story telling. I started in film which was very expensive as you all know - in order to stay in the budget you had to pre-plan and make sure your story could be be told within the budget so you could make a profit. The young filmmakers today are producing a lot of sizzle with no bacon.
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Thanks Doug , I was unaware of that . No viewfinder is a big problem , though having internal ND's is a big step up from what's wrong with a mirrorless. I'd have to look at the color settings to see what issues that presents. I always used my own custom matrix settings for WYSIWYG video but since s-cinetone don't often bother. My guess is that most guys don't know what to do with those settings anyway. is there a decent 3rd party way to rig a VF?
 
LennyLevy said:
Thanks Doug , I was unaware of that . No viewfinder is a big problem , though having internal ND's is a big step up from what's wrong with a mirrorless. I'd have to look at the color settings to see what issues that presents. I always used my own custom matrix settings for WYSIWYG video but since s-cinetone don't often bother. My guess is that most guys don't know what to do with those settings anyway. is there a decent 3rd party way to rig a VF?
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I use a Zacuto Gratical Eye on my FX6 and it is wonderful. Really a very nice viewfinder and I could never use the camera without it.

S-Cinetone looks nice indoors and controlled light, especially when shooting humans. But it falls apart pretty fast in bright daylight. It can be graded in post to bring it back a little, but then it's not a WYSIWYG scene file anymore, is it? Might as well shoot LOG and keep all options open in post unless you are shooting in the very narrow conditions where S-Cinetone is designed to work.
 
Joshua Milligan said:
What's interesting to me is that you guys are all chatting about cameras like the FS7, FX6, FX9, F5, F55, F3, etc., and many of those cameras can be found used for very little today, yet for some reason the rest of the world seems fixated on buying mirrorless cameras instead for their A-cams. I just don't get that.
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Is this true? Outside of the wedding business, I don't meet any cameramen who use a mirrorless camera as their only or A camera. I would imagine that youngsters are buying them as starter cameras, whether or not they realize it yet.

Of course, there are things I can do with a mirrorless camera that I can't do with my fs7 or probably an fx6 either. Horses for courses. A lot of the critiques seem to me centered around ENG-style shooting.

Re: rigging, I personally mostly use tripod or gimbal and very little handheld anymore. For me, going handheld was usually about mobility rather than the handheld look. My biggest client just handed me a series of recurring shoots to cover on gimbal that were previously covered by another bloke handheld. They are delighted by the difference on the first few shoots of footage
 
NorBro said:
I think most would agree.

'Bigger is better' and it will take another generation or two to change that as the ones after will be more used to smaller boxes because they did not live a life seeing big cameras on shoulders.

Once I saw a poll somewhere that said 77% of camera operators use matte boxes just to impress the client. I didn't vote but I would have been a part of the 77%.

You dress [your small cameras] to impress when you need to.

Cages, clamps, rods, plates, small boxes with antennas...random wires hanging around with no purpose at all...it's show biz.
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Yeah but there comes a point where people look at your stuff in an editing suite and none of that matters anymore. All that matters is the result, which is likely why they'll call you back for more (or not). And, yknow, everything you mentioned will make a difference
 
DLD said:
)

My opinion is that, at some point, #1 will be the most important because these days it's not difficult to put out a highlight reel to impress the world. And, I think #2 has a lot of workarounds to where someone can set up an A1/R5/R3/Z9 to do pretty much what an F-55 could do.
.
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Yeah but #2 and #3 make an impact on #1. (See: Mavic 3 cine, footage download speeds.) That's basically what operators are always complaining about: design flaws that make a material negative impact on your shooting and hence your shots (or making you miss shots). That's largely the point of this tangent. And while maybe you could make something impressive under favorable circumstances and shot selection, your process may not hold up under adverse conditions for a client
 
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Doug Jensen said:
I use a Zacuto Gratical Eye on my FX6 and it is wonderful. Really a very nice viewfinder and I could never use the camera without it.

S-Cinetone looks nice indoors and controlled light, especially when shooting humans. But it falls apart pretty fast in bright daylight. It can be graded in post to bring it back a little, but then it's not a WYSIWYG scene file anymore, is it? Might as well shoot LOG and keep all options open in post unless you are shooting in the very narrow conditions where S-Cinetone is designed to work.
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You can't design a lower contrast wysiwyg look? I guess that's what you're complaining about the paint menus? You can't load in LUTs?
 
One general dvxuser observation: I feel like people tend to generalize about gear choices and shooting practices based on their own work, and it often leads to people talking past each other. Which is why I feel like it's so important to specify what the purpose and desired result of the tool is. I mean, Doug (for example) owns several different TYPES of cameras, but even he doesn't perform every type of shooting out there.
 
ahalpert said:
Is this true? Outside of the wedding business, I don't meet any cameramen who use a mirrorless camera as their only or A camera. I would imagine that youngsters are buying them as starter cameras, whether or not they realize it yet.
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I could literally probably give you the names of at least 50 people without even thinking hard that I know who film full time outside of the wedding industry and run mirrorless cameras as their A-cams. Virtually all of them got started in the past 5-10 years and began on the DSLR format and never dared to try anything else. And at least 10 of those don't even own a tripod.
 
What market is that in geographically?

I guess it's also possible that I'm out of touch with the youth these days since I'm 3 years older than you

Joshua Milligan said:
. And at least 10 of those don't even own a tripod.
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Whaaaaaaa? What sort of material do they shoot? Are they religiously opposed to setting their camera down? Also, tell them to get off my lawn
 
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ahalpert said:
What market is that in geographically?

I guess it's also possible that I'm out of touch with the youth these days since I'm 3 years older than you



Whaaaaaaa? What sort of material do they shoot? Are they religiously opposed to setting their camera down? Also, tell them to get off my lawn
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Geographically it's all over. I work all over the US and know shooters all over. The vast majority of them will never try anything outside of DSLR or mirrorless cameras and like I said, at least 10 I know of don't have tripods. They claim that monopods are good enough. The sad part is these guys get work, and not just wedding work, but commercial and corporate work. Meanwhile I'm rocking two Sachtlers and feel like I'm beating my head against the wall when I talk to guys like that. It kills me.

I've ran into that so many times that when I go to hire freelancers now the first question I ask them is what kind of tripod they have. I can tell a lot about a shooter based on their answer to that question.
 
The cycle of video production repeats itself...

10-12 years ago, I was in the same position somehow getting pretty decent work without knowing the difference between white balance and shutter speed.

I had a 5D Mark II and a 50mm with a tripod (Sunpak) from Best Buy that I got for free and I somehow made it work.

You're an old soul Joshua...unless you're shooting for someone requesting specific gear times have changed.
 
Joshua Milligan said:
Geographically it's all over. I work all over the US and know shooters all over. The vast majority of them will never try anything outside of DSLR or mirrorless cameras and like I said, at least 10 I know of don't have tripods. They claim that monopods are good enough. The sad part is these guys get work, and not just wedding work, but commercial and corporate work. Meanwhile I'm rocking two Sachtlers and feel like I'm beating my head against the wall when I talk to guys like that. It kills me.

I've ran into that so many times that when I go to hire freelancers now the first question I ask them is what kind of tripod they have. I can tell a lot about a shooter based on their answer to that question.
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They can't be shooting multi-camera interviews with monopods... But hey, more power to them. To be sure, the skills, craft, creativity of the operator are paramount. It just surprises me that anyone with the aforementioned attributes would completely eschew a tripod. Btw, if you need to hire a shooter in the metro NY area, my main tripod is a sachtler video 18 ii. what that say about me I'm not sure
 
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