F3: Sony PMW-F3 price drop.

I cleaned up the post where I entered my Matrix for the F3. I thought it gauche great color thou I adjust Saturation and back level to the shot.
Works in FS7 Custom also with a phase adjustment aprox -7 but that seems to depend on the shot also.



Matrix - High Sat
Level 0 to +2 ? set to taste for shot
Phase 0
R-G + 64
R-B - 10
G-R + 5
G-B 0
B-R - 5
B-G - 21
Black level -2 to - 6 depends on the gamma
could be any gamma
Gamma level- -2 to-4 for STD 5
everything else 0 or off.

Lenny

 
Lenilenapi said:
I don't understand the big deal about the 444 Slog key. How many people using an F3 want files as big as 444. Every F3 has Slog - all you need is a pro Res recorder and a samurai can be had cheap. 442 10 bit Slog - best deal around.
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I hear you. However, I wouldn't be surprised if we see at next NAB some new versions of cheap portable recorders like the Shuttle, Ninja Star and such that are RGB 444 / 3G capable in the sub $500 range. If so, RGB will be even more affordable.
 
Question remains- who is editing 444 and for a camera that cheap who needs it? Seems to be a big deal for people purchasing a used camera at $2K /. I wonder how often they'll us it.
 
Lenilenapi said:
I don't understand the big deal about the 444 Slog key. How many people using an F3 want files as big as 444. Every F3 has Slog - all you need is a pro Res recorder and a samurai can be had cheap. 442 10 bit Slog - best deal around.
Click to expand...

Try grading uncompressed 444 vs Prores 444. The difference is pretty obvious.
Also greenscreen work etc.
 
Nirv said:
The F3 might be bought by those who already own one or two which is perfectly valid but going forward but I can't see many people being drawn to the F3 from cold despite it being "cheap". It would require a lot of investment in ancillary equipment that might be better spent putting into a new package like the FS7. When I'm buying camera equipment I'm looking at least 2 years down the line possibly 3 and I don't think the comparatively soft image of the F3 is going to cut it.
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The "extra equipment" is certainly a cost which needs to be factored in (brings up my total expenditure to much more than just what I paid for the body itself), but I don't see it as substantial points against getting an F3. As they're not much different than what you'd have to spend if you're rigging up any other camera such as an A7s. Plus I'll expect almost all these extra parts I'll be able to carry forward to my next camera, such as an URSA Mini or FS7.

Yes you should be looking two or three years down the line when buying an expensive camera such as F5 / C300mk2 / RED SCARLET , but the mathematics becomes very different when you're considering a camera which only costs the same (or half the price!) as a new top end DSLR/MILC. Then you only need to think about if it makes sense to shoot with for the next year or so? Easy to answer yes! But even so, I'm confident it will still find a place for the next two or even three years for me personally.

Viddovation said:
From what I've heard, it sold quite well. That fact is part of why it has had it's used value so thoroughly trashed to where Iron Film apparently got one for about $1k. Supply and demand. And in this case, used supply is tremendous, because all the folks willing to spend $14k on a new PMW-F3 moved to 4k cameras at about the same time as each other.
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Exactly, it sold very well. Just not so much to indie filmmakers or people stepping up from Canon DSLRs. Which BMCC and C100/C300 captured instead. Which is the same market of people (indie/DSLRs) who'd now consider moving up to a low low priced second hand Sony CineAlta camera. But they're not, becsuse it is Canon/BMD/etc which captured all the attention instead.

Thus we've got this huge imbalance between supply and demand, leading to incredible prices of low two thousands or even less for an F3.

So if you're in the general niche which an F3's mix of price/performance/features works for (which isn't everybody, but still includes many of us), jump on it! :-D
 
Lenilenapi said:
I don't understand the big deal about the 444 Slog key. How many people using an F3 want files as big as 444. Every F3 has Slog - all you need is a pro Res recorder and a samurai can be had cheap. 442 10 bit Slog - best deal around.
Click to expand...

444 for most used buyers of an F3 today probably are just viewing it as a nice "bonus", like the PL mount. Rather than its primary reason to get it.

I'm likely getting the BMD Video Assist, for the 10bit 422 FHD 60fps

Only $500!

Now if only BMD would ship it...

Harry Lime said:
According to my dealer in Burbank and a few other sources Sony sold the F3 by the truckload. My guess is a lot of them went into industrial / corporate video, documentaries, weddings, events shooters, concerts etc. I bet that a lot of people who had an EX3 upgraded to the F3.

You also have to keep in mind that in the past 4 years the price performance ratio has changed dramatically. When the F3 came out it was a bargain. Super 35 sensor, super clean high asa, 13.5 stops and uncompressed 10bit RGB 444 slog output, SDI and HDMI out, FZ / PL mount etc for $14,000. The ergonomics were ridiculous, but the F3 was a reliable, professional piece of gear from a reputable company.

The only competition it had was the Scarlet. The jump above it meant an Epic or Alexa. It took over a year for the BMC to appear and in many ways the F5 was the first real alternative to the F3. The FS7 really put the nail in the coffin of the F3, but that didn't happen until almost 3 years after its release.

And frankly I'm loath to trade my F3L for an FS7, because of the laters DSLR mount. I have PL and BNCR mount primes and the last thing I need is a flimsy mount that flexes under stress and throws my footage out of focus. In terms of IQ I highly doubt that there are a lot of people out there who can tell the difference between properly shot HD footage out of the F3L and FS7. The difference in image quality is not like day and night. When I do upgrade it will have to be to a camera with either a PL or preferably Sony FZ-mount. And that probably means a used F5 or something Sony hasn't released, yet.

I think that if you already own something like an Odyssey 7Q and can find a used F3L for $2000-2500 it represents one of the best values on the market.
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Exactly. In context for its time, it was a great value camera with only the RED Scarlet for competition (which aimed at quite a different niche, which overlapped but wasn't the same).

And now again in 2015 it is once again a great value camera! ;-)

Lenilenapi said:
Question remains- who is editing 444 and for a camera that cheap who needs it? Seems to be a big deal for people purchasing a used camera at $2K /. I wonder how often they'll us it.
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Answered now, but even so, I might be using it. I do work with VFX guys and colour graders who'd appreciate it. And the Video Devices PIX-E5 has 444 and is fairly affordable, so still kinda on the fence with that vs BMD VA.
 
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