Sony now suing RED!

Emanuel said:
Indeed : ( Added the fact the founder of dvxuser is the President of RED company and a friend of a few of us here, this is even sadder to see.
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Wait so because Jarred founded this site people can't have opinions against RED? I don't get what his founding of this site and being a friend to a few has to do with people disagreeing with REDs tactics.

The turn of opinion to me just goes to show how much ill will Jannard has caused with his style of business. Most of the people I know who used to be all in with RED have grown tired of the antics and cult mentality.
 
Gillvane said:
This is the two edged sword of patent protection. Patent protection promotes innovation. R&D costs millions and millions of dollars. You can always beat someone in price if you let them spend the money on R&D, then you copy the product and produce it.

On the other hand to much patent protection can stifle innovation. If it's to broad or to long lasting, new products can never be developed because everything overlaps or builds on something else.

There's no way to perfectly write patent laws so that these two issues are balanced out and there is never a problem.

However, tech consumers are relatively savvy. They know when a lawsuit is to protect the investment in R&D, when a company is legitimately protecting itself from just spending the research money while some other company steals the research and makes the product. They also know when one company is just using the Patent laws to stifle competition, which is not in the best interest of the consumer.
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Well said. And I hope you're right about the last paragraph!
 
harddrive said:
My own expectation is that this will all end with a very quiet announcement in some months time that a settlement has been reached. Not with Red, Sony or any other big similar company going spectacularly broke.
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I agree that this is the most likely outcome just as the ARRI lawsuit. Just enough that Jannard can still claim to be undefeated in court and nothing comes out of it other than some bluster and noise that will fade in the coming months.

Now with NAB 2013 about to start and the big firms coming hot on the heals RED is under massive pressure to come out with something to keep them ahead or risk fading (with Jannard kicking and screeming) into the background.

I am guessing that Dragon is proving a bigger challenge for RED than originally thought. Especially trying to shoe horn it into an old body design.
 
RatLabProductions said:
Emanuel said:
Indeed : ( Added the fact the founder of dvxuser is the President of RED company and a friend of a few of us here, this is even sadder to see.
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Wait so because Jarred founded this site people can't have opinions against RED? I don't get what his founding of this site and being a friend to a few has to do with people disagreeing with REDs tactics.
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I never go to someone's else house to pee in the courtyard behind a bush ;-)

The attacks against RED possible to read here, go well beyond the good faith (hate... what the hell?!) especially since RED has become to also rule this market.

E. :-)
 
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I just want to add a little food for thought. Whatever Sony or Red do/don't do in the future, whatever the outcome of this court case - these things will have no bearing on the outcome of your life.
 
Most of these things have no bearing on the outcome of our lives. Discussion boards mean discussions, and people will have different opinions.
 
pulpfiction007 said:
Most of these things have no bearing on the outcome of our lives. Discussion boards mean discussions, and people will have different opinions.
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Oh goodness. Its a tone. People are free to discuss it and be part of that discussion. My point is some people become involved and discuss like it will have some major impact on them.
 
I was just stating my opinion plainly...I understand where it could come off as a tone, apologize for that. But many of these things do get heated....I just see it as part of a good debate, until people call one another names, then that's a different story altogether.
 
Michael Schrengohst said:
Lawyers try and get the dumbest people on juries (that's why I never get picked) that have no idea what the case is even about. Lawyers will play the "USA" card….
You are supposing that most people in the US are as smart and informed as DVXUsers - they are not.:Drogar-Dum(DBG):
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A patient suit such as this will never go to a jury. If there is a judicial resolution to this it will be rendered by a U.S. Federal Judge, not a jury.
 
Thomas Kist said:
Only the lawyers are winning here.
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Not true. As usual, they'll share patents if they have patents to trade and that will be that. If , however, one party has stolen all the other's claims then there will be monetary damages in one direction only.
You can get a clue on who's likely to win by comparing the patent application dates ; )
 
Barry_Green said:
Wow. Have times changed that much? From just a few short years ago, where Red was the savior of indie filmmaking, the renegade that was going to revolutionize the industry and break up the stranglehold on technology that the evil cartel of Japanese companies held... now we seriously have someone ROOTING for Sony (Sony! Of all companies!) to kill Red dead...

Starcentral, you win the award for the most unexpected post I've ever seen on DVXUser...
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You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
 
imdjay said:
ya know, my first thought when reading this was: Wait, they cite the red one in this.... if i were a jury member/defendant, i'd be wondering why these infringements weren't brought up years ago?
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big corporate lawsuits take time, lots & lots of time, & go on for ages & ages & ages.

in American we have inalienable rights, freedom of the mind, soul, body & the right to a speedy trial. that last one is in there because even a long time ago, anything legal related took a long time.
 
David G. Smith said:
A patient suit such as this will never go to a jury. If there is a judicial resolution to this it will be rendered by a U.S. Federal Judge, not a jury.
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[h=1]Jury Awards $1 Billion to Apple in Samsung Patent Case[/h]
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/t...ision-in-apple-samsung-patent-trial.html?_r=0

The nine jurors in the case, who faced the daunting task of answering more than 700 questions on sometimes highly technical matters, returned a verdict after just three days of deliberations at a federal courthouse in San Jose, Calif. They found that Samsung infringed on a series of Apple’s patents on mobile devices, awarding Apple more than $1 billion in damages.​
 
starcentral said:
The timing couldn't be better. Congrats Sony, knock 'em dead.
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i guess you just opened a bottle of wine after reading that post dennis?

in the end, i think it will force both parties to pack up, and everything stays like it is today.
I do like RED and i do like Sony - wonder who is in the right here...
 
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Michael Schrengohst said:
Jury Awards $1 Billion to Apple in Samsung Patent Case


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/t...ision-in-apple-samsung-patent-trial.html?_r=0

The nine jurors in the case, who faced the daunting task of answering more than 700 questions on sometimes highly technical matters, returned a verdict after just three days of deliberations at a federal courthouse in San Jose, Calif. They found that Samsung infringed on a series of Apple’s patents on mobile devices, awarding Apple more than $1 billion in damages.​
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I thought Samsung appealed, and a lot of them were turned down.
 
Red is in defensive mode. Sony has forced them to slash prices which will eat into future earnings and Red's ability to pursue these lawsuits. If Sony really wants to play hardball, they could slash the price of their new cameras and really put the screws to Red. That's how Japanese companies have waged war for market share in the past
This lawsuit by Red appears to be a desperate miscalculation to me.
 
visugeek said:
Red is in defensive mode. Sony has forced them to slash prices which will eat into future earnings and Red's ability to pursue these lawsuits. If Sony really wants to play hardball, they could slash the price of their new cameras and really put the screws to Red. That's how Japanese companies have waged war for market share in the past
This lawsuit by Red appears to be a desperate miscalculation to me.
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I think Red eventually needs to become a mainstream company like Sony or Canon. They beat everyone to the 4k mark, but now the pack is catching up. I could be wrong but I don't think 6k, 8, a million K is the answer. We're reaching the eyeball limit at 4k so you have to work within that realm and now other companies are starting to offer reasonable 4k solutions.

I think Red could and should release something for the consumer market. Canon has made a bazillion dollars with it's Rebel cameras and 5D Mark II, there's no reason Red can't take a bite out of this market with the tech they own. Red could easily release something in the 2.5k realm for the upper end of the consumer market.
 
RED have basically put themselves in an awkward position.

Stay with their unusual, RAW-only, "DSMC" modular philosophy and lose out on the market share that NEEDS direct-to-edit, regular sized cameras etc..... or

Go for the F3 crowd with something a bit more user-friendly than the scarlet, but abandon their core philosophy.

TBH, "Obsolescence obsolete" was a bit of a joke from the off. RED M-X for $4,500 battle tested? I know a few RED owners who were a bit upset at that...
 
JMtheDP said:
TBH, "Obsolescence obsolete" was a bit of a joke from the off. RED M-X for $4,500 battle tested? I know a few RED owners who were a bit upset at that...
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I wouldn't take such a harsh tone and call it a joke, but I don't think the modular approach is a great bang for your buck.


IMO, the extra expensive of all the parts and pieces to make a functioning camera negates the savings of upgrading. I'd rather have cheaper now, and pay for another camera later if it's needed.
 
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