Sony NEX FS700-4K?

Zephyrnoid said:
...and by the time they release the 4k firmware. Oops! Oh Golly Gee... we have a NEW camera on offer in April 2013 that does all this and more and is 1/2 the size and Oh golly gee is even less than the 2012 price of the FS700. seen all this before. Run your FS100s into the ground. THEN worry about ramping up to 4K
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So what happens when you wait till 2013 and get that camera and then in 2014 sony releases another camera that shoots 5k?

You can never get ahead. There will always be a newer, smaller, cheaper, faster, more powerful camera being developed.

If the FS100 works for you, get it. If the FS700 fits better, then get that. If you want to wait then wait. Pretty simple stuff.
 
Tim Nitsch said:
You can never get ahead. There will always be a newer, smaller, cheaper, faster, more powerful camera being developed...
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All good points.

I'm currently strapped, but I have to wonder if there will be some great deals in the weeks or months to come with people dumping their FS100's (and 5D Mark II's) in order to get the latest greatest.
 
Yup.

When our two GH2s are making images that often - possibly because of where they can be brought, how they can blend in - surpass the RED in feel, and get very close in res (at 1080) and overall image, I realized it was time to move on. And now, seeing the FS700, I do feel a bit clever, as I'd have traded straight across for this thing and we got more for the RED than the price of admission here. Overcranking at 2k was okay, but this thing is CLEARLY sharper than that, and rolls at 5x the RED 2k frame rate... no, times change.

I'm not sure where we're heading. Have the ridiculously low-res HVX still and a couple of GH2s, and a lot of great glass. Glass that will wait for a while for a new home.

edit: and still have the 5d2, still great for what it's great at.
 
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Cosimo Bullo said:
This former RED owner thinks RED may be in a bit of trouble... at least price point wise.
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I wrote that on FB and they only guy who argued was an Epic owner.
Yes the Epic has its justification in the market, but rental prices for highspeed cams are dropping and as you say even a GH2 produces similar results once we watch it at 1080p which IS the standard. Prices of the RED and its accessoires are under pressure with this cam more than ever.
 
snowleopard said:
All good points.

I'm currently strapped, but I have to wonder if there will be some great deals in the weeks or months to come with people dumping their FS100's (and 5D Mark II's) in order to get the latest greatest.
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This is a good possibility. I might be selling my FS100, although my accountant thinks I should hold fast for now.


Accountant: "Do you really need all the newest bells and whistles?"

Me: "Of course!"
 
The 3G SDI 4k raw output is just theoretical at this point. We have no idea what cost and what equipment is needed to capture 12 bit 4K raw out of this camera, or when it will be available. Until that's clearly defined, the Scarlet/EPIC is quite a unique niche high end product.

More of a threat is any future "F5" that comes with a PL or EOS mount and some built in codec that can capture 4K raw to built in media device. That would be a direct competitor, but most likely will approach the $20K price point. Maybe we'll see that at NAB?
 
Doctor Wu said:
The 3G SDI 4k raw output is just theoretical at this point. We have no idea what cost and what equipment is needed to capture 12 bit 4K raw out of this camera, or when it will be available. Until that's clearly defined, the Scarlet/EPIC is quite a unique niche high end product.

More of a threat is any future "F5" that comes with a PL or EOS mount and some built in codec that can capture 4K raw to built in media device. That would be a direct competitor, but most likely will approach the $20K price point. Maybe we'll see that at NAB?
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+1
 
Cosimo Bullo said:
Yup.

When our two GH2s are making images that often - possibly because of where they can be brought, how they can blend in - surpass the RED in feel, and get very close in res (at 1080) and overall image, I realized it was time to move on. And now, seeing the FS700, I do feel a bit clever, as I'd have traded straight across for this thing and we got more for the RED than the price of admission here. Overcranking at 2k was okay, but this thing is CLEARLY sharper than that, and rolls at 5x the RED 2k frame rate... no, times change.

I'm not sure where we're heading. Have the ridiculously low-res HVX still and a couple of GH2s, and a lot of great glass. Glass that will wait for a while for a new home.

edit: and still have the 5d2, still great for what it's great at.
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I hear you on that. I think any of the higher priced cams in general are a hard buy without a solid stash of clients.

Hacked GH2 and 5K have me spoiled beyond recovery.
 
Tim Nitsch said:
So what happens when you wait till 2013 and get that camera and then in 2014 sony releases another camera that shoots 5k?

You can never get ahead. There will always be a newer, smaller, cheaper, faster, more powerful camera being developed.

If the FS100 works for you, get it. If the FS700 fits better, then get that. If you want to wait then wait. Pretty simple stuff.
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Yes. exactly. I used to work at Discovery and we'd laugh at this 'keeping up with the jones's' routine. Bottom line...

But what you can pay off in 6 months or less, otherwise....rent.
Or, eyeball what you really need the camera for and stick to the gear that has the required specs.
The annual 'what's at the top of the charts' game is for the birds.
Only reason I'm involved is I have real projects with funding in hand and cannot execute them with my Canon HV20. Just need to get the specs of the latest gear all sorted out.
 
I'm starting to hear the sounds of reason in this thread.
Message to Sony. Roll out your promised 4k upgrades for the FS700 by no later than Q4 2012 or you're toast.
Early adopters are 'beta' testers and 'angel' investors. I'd wait till Oct 2012 to pounce on the FS-7000
Besides.... if we've waited this long for Scarlet... we can give Sony 6 months to roll out the upgrades :)
 
Zephyrnoid said:
Yes. exactly. I used to work at Discovery and we'd laugh at this 'keeping up with the jones's' routine. Bottom line...

But what you can pay off in 6 months or less, otherwise....rent.
Or, eyeball what you really need the camera for and stick to the gear that has the required specs.
The annual 'what's at the top of the charts' game is for the birds.
Only reason I'm involved is I have real projects with funding in hand and cannot execute them with my Canon HV20. Just need to get the specs of the latest gear all sorted out.
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Honestly, with all due respect for the great organizations they are, Nat Geo and Discovery are still acquiring on the tape-based varicam for most shows (and we do a LOT of work for both networks) at... wait for it... 960x720. This is a fact. Turn on Planet Earth, Curiosity, any Nat Geo prison show... you're looking at 960x720.

Those networks have decided that reliability and archivability are the most important factors in acquisition right now. So I'm telling you this: if your dream is to shoot for National Geographic, buy a tape based varicam, rent or buy lenses, make lovely images, and go with God. Becuase, as Zephyrnoid (lord that's hard to spell) says, their concerns are different that the peepers (me included) here.
 
Tim Nitsch said:
So what happens when you wait till 2013 and get that camera and then in 2014 sony releases another camera that shoots 5k?

You can never get ahead. There will always be a newer, smaller, cheaper, faster, more powerful camera being developed.

If the FS100 works for you, get it. If the FS700 fits better, then get that. If you want to wait then wait. Pretty simple stuff.
Click to expand...
I said similar on another forum.

The days of cameras and decks having a useful life of 10+ years are gone. I mean, did a lot change in the world of BetaSP between '86 and 2000? Cameras are tiny computers now and are evolving at computer speeds. Lord only knows the specs of the cameras and codecs we'll be using in 2022.


-Andrew
 
The problem is not when you will get the upgrade but in what form and more importantly the cost. Many are saying, hey the scarlet or red are in trouble etc. etc. having a 4k camera for less than $ 10k. But you might find yourself with a $ 4000 firmware, $ 10 000 recorder and media in the thousand of dollars to be able to do it. Everyone should stop referring this camera as a 4k raw one until the whole picture is unveiled. So please this is an upgrade to the FS-100, 8 bit 1080p camera with super slow motion and ND wheels and perhaps better DR for now.
 
Cosimo Bullo said:
Honestly, with all due respect for the great organizations they are, Nat Geo and Discovery are still acquiring on the tape-based varicam for most shows (and we do a LOT of work for both networks) at... wait for it... 960x720.
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Here's a summary of the spec highlights for Discovery (Broadcast not just Netcast)
Bottom line. If you're just shooting home movies, there are no rules. If you're interested in getting paid or sponsored for Broadcast , Netcast or Simulcast programs, then you ought to reverse engineer your productions starting with the delivered goods in the accepted format and working BACKWARDS to your buying and training decisions.
This is actually advice I give to everyone in all domains, not just video content.
------------

1.1 Production Formats
Video signals from cameras or telecine equipment shall be produced with an aspect ratio of 16:9 and must comply with one of the 1920 x 1080 standards specified by SMPTE-274Mor with one of the 1280 x 720 standards specified by SMPTE-296M-1997.

1.2 Program Tape Format (see Discovery Deliverable document)
Tapes delivered to CTVGM must be HDCAM or HDCAM-SR in the 1080i format (1080 lines interlaced 2:1 at a frame rate of 59.94 Hz) and signal parameters must conform to SMPTE 274M with no visible video impairment such as blocking errors or pixelization artifacts. Luminance and color difference signals must not exceed the bounds of legal gamut.

1.3 Accompanying Program Delivery (see Discovery Deliverable document)
HDCAM (or HDCAM-SR) masters delivered for broadcast must also be accompanied by a standard definition Digital Betacam down converted clone. Generally, the standard definition dub shall contain a 4:3 image obtained from the HD master by either a “pan and scan” or “centre cut” process which ensures that no critical picture information is lost. Discovery Channel and Space will accept letterboxed SD material. Program content shall be exactly the same as the HD master and timecodes shall match exactly. Audio shall match also for any Lt/Rt or Lo/Ro content but no Dolby E is necessary (please see section 2 regarding audio requirements). If available, the stereo M&E mix can exist on channels 3 & 4 of the standard definition master. Closed captioning shall be on line 21.

1.4 Reference Signals
Program content shall be preceded with a minimum of one minute of color bars (75% or 100% chroma amplitude) and audio tone of 1000 Hz, followed by 10 seconds of slate and 10 seconds of black before start of program. Program material must be representative of bars and tone.

1.5 Time Code
HD tapes must be recorded with drop frame time code. Program start time code must read either 01:00:00:00 or 10:00:00:00. Time code should be continuous, without error, and contain the appropriate flagging information in adherence with SMPTE specification 12 M.

The full 10 page guide is here > Discovery Channel Production Guide
 
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BTW. Zephyrnoid has been the oldest of my many online monikers (Summer 1995). Hobbled together from Zephyr (warm westerly wind) and Humanoid (Primate Mammals of Earthly origin)
Hope that you like it ;)
 
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