Sony NEX 5N Prototype Video Setup

richg101 said:
...i think gh2 would be a possibility for future enclosure:) it would be a bigger case, and would not need the cooling, so benefits of the case would be less of a selling point, but the form factor then makes the GH2 camera more serious looking - good for cast and crew moral if they are in front of something which looks less consumer grade i guess:)
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rich - what a great project. Have you thought about raising money for producing these via kickstarter? I'll bet you would find thousands of people willing to pre-order (at NEX-7 prices) for an enclosed NEX-5N with a mic input and a cooling fan based on your photos alone :-)

In the meantime, Sander Vreuls in the Netherlands has put a GH2 in a shoulder mount enclosure salvaged from an old Sony BVP-90! I like this approach a lot better than the shoulder mounted Franken-rigs that some people are building:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachm...2-shoulder-camera-2-3th-inch-lens-gh2cam1.jpg

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachm...2-shoulder-camera-2-3th-inch-lens-gh2cam2.jpg
 
Thanks for the nice comments. I am in the process of setting up a 'Kickstarter' style pre-order program. I have set the goal to produce 60 units. batch made in the UK at a prototyping company I have worked for. I will post up the link once it goes live.

The rough price guide:-

Basic enclosure, high Impact back ABS construction. with 2x 1/4" screw thread (top and bottom), 3x 3.5mm mono jack inputs (L-C-R) - with internal connector for smart terminal. Lithium Ion powered fan module + custom heatsink. Lens Mount:- Mechanical mount, M42, C/Y, OM, MD etc (user defined, and changable) + E-mount compatible - 500.00gbp


EF enclosure. As above, with additional electronic mount of Canon EF lenses (Conrus) 850.00GBP

PL enclosure. As above, with Universal 'Positive Lock' mount for use with Cine lenses. 750.00GBP

Each mount option (except when e-mount lenses are used) will be capable of accepting and harbouring heavy lenses without risk of damaging the internal camera mount.

The pricing puts the system + camera slap bang in Canon 7D price territory. Unfortunately, in order for this to meet the technical and manufacturing tolerance demands of myself (in order for the product to be well received by anyone who buys it), the price has gone up. Manufacturing in china would allow retail of these enclosures for around 250.00gbp but unfortunately I don't think this niche type of product has the potential customer base to warrant having 500 of these made. Nor do I want to put the prototype in the hands of a Chinese factory, who will no doubt make a run of them for other sellers.....

Watch this space
 
Hi, is it possible to attach one of the Sony Alpha mount adapters (Sony LA-EA1 - the mirrorless one) to the front of the basic enclosure? - Also, does the enclosure allow you to access the battery compartment? or do you have to remove the camera from the enclosure every time you need to change batteries? If you can access the battery compartment without removing the camera, will this allow you to use the Sony power adapter to power the camera indoors?

Many thanks,

Adam
 
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Hi there. LA-EA1 will work, but EA2 is too big:( the fan system pops out on a short flex of cable to allow access as normal to the battery/car slot:) I will be shooting a promo video shortly
 
Cool - thanks Rich! - Call me crazy, but I'm considering shooting my feature on a US (24/60P) 5N. I was going to get 2 bodies because of overheating - still may do that so I have back-up against other problems. In your personal opinion, do you feel that it's possible to get around the aliasing, moire & rolling shutter issues? - I'm really encouraged by a lot of what I've seen (stuff with nice glass can look amazing), but sometimes you find some god-awful examples of artifacts, this is one esp. bad example;

http://vimeo.com/38592804

Then, people have commented that the 5N suffers less from these issues than the 7D, and look how many features have shot with that!. It seems that the image from the 5N is much more robust for low light & grading than the NEX 7. About the power adapter - this has a dummy battery on a cord that goes to a power brick. Would it be possible to accomodate the use of this in your design?

I'm UK based and am shooting my film in the autumn. I would love one of your enclosures for the film! :D

Best wishes,

Adam
 
Randomfactor said:
Cool - thanks Rich! - Call me crazy, but I'm considering shooting my feature on a US (24/60P) 5N. I was going to get 2 bodies because of overheating - still may do that so I have back-up against other problems. In your personal opinion, do you feel that it's possible to get around the aliasing, moire & rolling shutter issues? - I'm really encouraged by a lot of what I've seen (stuff with nice glass can look amazing), but sometimes you find some god-awful examples of artifacts, this is one esp. bad example;

http://vimeo.com/38592804

Then, people have commented that the 5N suffers less from these issues than the 7D, and look how many features have shot with that!. It seems that the image from the 5N is much more robust for low light & grading than the NEX 7. About the power adapter - this has a dummy battery on a cord that goes to a power brick. Would it be possible to accomodate the use of this in your design?

I'm UK based and am shooting my film in the autumn. I would love one of your enclosures for the film! :D

Best wishes,

Adam
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Crazy? its more crazy to spend over 3000 quid on hire of a sony f3, compact prime lens setup, a load of lighting etc, then put a crew of unpaid film makers under stress to get a low budget movie, or worse, a pilot complete in the short week you have the equipment for! Your setup will fit in the back of a car. with your 2x Nex 5n's you have them for life (until you sell them). you are less under pressure to meet deadlines, and therefore, less artistic and creative decisions will get compromised due to the stress and time constraints you would be facing if the gear was better, but hired for a week. actually compare the 5n footage, using a zeiss compact prime lens, against an f3 shooting uncompressed with the same lens. there is a difference, but really, for the price it isnt worth it in my opinion - not for the purposes of most on this forum anyway. let your artistic flair make up for the equipment limitations. The NEX5N seems very good for post processing. lots of information captured when in low contrast, sunset mode. my suggestion would be to ensure you have well lit the space dynamically instead of trying to boost it later on. Stick with iso 400 and below, or shoot b+W at iso 1600 and enjoy! with no camera sharpening, high noise and b+W i really like the results.

I think too many people worry about artefacts left by current dslr cam's during independent film making. Rolling shutter etc.. even with the added expense of this added enclosure, the nex 5n + a good quality set of manual focus slr lenses such as OM, FD, Milolta etc+ external recorder such as Zoom H2, suitable tripod + diy dolly system. All of this is still within the 1500-2000gbp mark. You don't need lots of insurance. You can be more adventurous due to not having to worry as much about the camera getting damaged and costing you 10k to replace. etc etc etc. Take Robert Rodrequez. If you watch his film making tutorials showing his early works, he was using very basic gear, yet still he forged a career off the back of his early work using such compromised equipment. Some guys still use canon xl1's and other prehistoric gear, and get great results. Danny Boyle used a Canon XL-1 for some of the shots on 28 Days Later for gods sake!

My point is, even if the Sony NEX5n were inferior to the 7D (though in my opinion it is technically the better camera for use in a film environment (if you can live with physical constraints such as its tiny footprint, weak lens mount etc). create solid mounting points to remove wobble during focus pulling - inherent with the tiny footprint not mating enough with a tripod plate. etc. If these factors can be taken control of, the results are going to be more that adequate for shooting work that will be projected digitally. If you are shooting a pilot type feature, with intention of gaining funding for the actual finished piece, why not leave a bit of scope for improvement so the backers see some more potential in the piece, and give it an easier time. backers who nit pick the rolling shutter, moire and noise of a low budget pilot should be avoided like the plague.

Personally, I am unsure if I would go US 24p, or PAL 25p. it was a coin toss decision when i first invested in the 5N. Take into account that a PAL version can in effect be used for up to 25% of footage in a production to be aired on BBC 1. Meaning your NEX 5N Pal version can be used as b cams should you ever rent an F3 for a high profile production. Your footage can also be considered as archival footage too.

re. external power, via dummy battery, this is not a problem.
 
richg101 said:
Thanks for the nice comments. I am in the process of setting up a 'Kickstarter' style pre-order program. I have set the goal to produce 60 units. batch made in the UK at a prototyping company I have worked for. I will post up the link once it goes live.

The rough price guide:-

Basic enclosure, high Impact back ABS construction. with 2x 1/4" screw thread (top and bottom), 3x 3.5mm mono jack inputs (L-C-R) - with internal connector for smart terminal. Lithium Ion powered fan module + custom heatsink. Lens Mount:- Mechanical mount, M42, C/Y, OM, MD etc (user defined, and changable) + E-mount compatible - 500.00gbp


EF enclosure. As above, with additional electronic mount of Canon EF lenses (Conrus) 850.00GBP

PL enclosure. As above, with Universal 'Positive Lock' mount for use with Cine lenses. 750.00GBP

Each mount option (except when e-mount lenses are used) will be capable of accepting and harbouring heavy lenses without risk of damaging the internal camera mount.

The pricing puts the system + camera slap bang in Canon 7D price territory. Unfortunately, in order for this to meet the technical and manufacturing tolerance demands of myself (in order for the product to be well received by anyone who buys it), the price has gone up. Manufacturing in china would allow retail of these enclosures for around 250.00gbp but unfortunately I don't think this niche type of product has the potential customer base to warrant having 500 of these made. Nor do I want to put the prototype in the hands of a Chinese factory, who will no doubt make a run of them for other sellers.....

Watch this space
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Wow, does that price include the lcd on the pictures too??
This is a great project but having to buy different accessories to be able to use ALL different lenses that I own I think I would prefer to buy an A65 or an A77 (both have a better cooling system, in-camera stabilization and mic inputs).
 
Thanks for the great response Rich! :) - I say crazy because to the best of my knowlege, no one's attempted to shoot a feature with one yet. I've been making films for the past 22 years on pretty much every film/video format going. My reasons for going the 24/60P route are several;

Extra 10 FPS for slow-mo makes a difference to me

I want to create a universal region free NTSC DVD for the film as I don't want to spend out on two seprate PAL & NTSC versions. Most players in the U.S. are NTSC only whereas most overseas players can play NTSC discs and it is much easier to create a NTSC 30fps DVD from a 24P master than a 25P one

My film includes Pixelvision footage. This is NTSC & has to be converted from 30i to 24P


Of course, the U.S. 5N's are also a hell of a lot cheaper than in the UK! ;) - I don't care about UK TV at all (though I've had stuff aired in the past). My film is a small arthouse picture & long gone are the days when you can get a sale or any interest at all as an indie from the likes of CH4. My last 35mm short sold to them in 1998. They've since played it around 14 times that I know about on CH4 & filmfour. I am self-financing & distributing this film on a shoestring based on a lot of lessons learned in the past, and I'm sure I'll continue to learn much more! ;)

I agree about getting the most from basic gear & I'm pretty stunned about what the 5N can achieve. My story requires a stealth camera and that, along with the slo-mo and low light abilities, is why the 5N is so interesting to me. Your enclosure ROCKS! - I love this sort of invention to get around limitations & add functionality.

Thanks again for all your advice, it's much appriciated.

Adam
 
richg101 said:
Basic enclosure, high Impact back ABS construction. with 2x 1/4" screw thread (top and bottom), 3x 3.5mm mono jack inputs (L-C-R) - with internal connector for smart terminal. Lithium Ion powered fan module + custom heatsink. Lens Mount:- Mechanical mount, M42, C/Y, OM, MD etc (user defined, and changable) + E-mount compatible - 500.00gbp
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I'd be very interested if you could get the price any lower. Definitely look into packaging the audio input+smart terminal connector as a standalone product.
 
unfortunately it will be hard to manufacture such a small batch for less than the initial guide prices. I suppose its best to decide if the gains are worth the money.

here are some further images..

IMG_2375_resized.jpgIMG_2376_resized.jpgIMG_2377_resized.jpg
 
WOW. Genius. Seriously. I love the 5N, but with all the overheating, I was turned off. Have you done any test on recording duration between stock and yours? I'm curious to know how much of a longer duration or if any overheating occurs now.
 
recent tests have led to a slight re-route of airflow. over the emount area which is a particular warm zone. as well as the heatsink arrangement which has been fitted behind the nex5n lcd screen. Add a alloy lens adaptor and the heat transfer from emount to lens adaptor is superb. the adaptor actually get warm to the touch meaning it is acting as a very good heatsink. the flow over this is shifting a lot of heat, maybe even more than the rear heatsinks we added under the lcd screen. Obviously the gains of airflow around this point when using sel lenses is less of a benefit. However the 'sel' lenses are partially metal, and airflow around the lcd heatsink arrangement is still substantial.

Since we have been taking the prototype out to paid gigs we have seen the temp warning light come on maybe once or twice. but this was during very busy exhibition events when we have been getting 45 minute speeches and then an unexpected 15-20 minute music performance straight after. the temp warning light came on near the end of a prolonged 1hr continuous use at 25fps, 800iso, fx mode. class 10 sd cards. directly prior to the hour shoot it was being used for about 1hr of running around getting 5-10 second 'b-roll' material continuously. not yet had any shut down since testing the enclosure. the previous gig in the same venue using the standard nex5n for the first time, it was warm non stop and cut out half way through a 1 hour recording session meaning we missed 5 mins during cool down.

Overheating is not something we worry about now though:) we just want to get the sel50mm in our hands to test it out. this is our only annoyance, the lack of 50mm with lovely OSS.
 
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I would pay that kind of money if the housing would allow to connect an external mic directly into the NEX. I know it would be asking too much...but since we´re all asking for stuff the perfect housing would should be able to:
- resolve the overheating issue
- allow you to connect an external mic directly into the NEX
- provide some sort of stabilization
- be more flexible when it comes to mounts (I have minoltas, c-mounts, e-mounts, alpha mounts, etc)
 
Looks like a very nice job, but I have to confess to being a little baffled... is the video quality on the 5n really good enough to justify PL lenses? I have a NEX-7, and I"m very disappointed with the video quality (compared to an FS100). If the 5n is that much better, I'll trade down in a heartbeat.
 
difference between 5n and nex 7 are slight. 5n better low light. nex7 - better dr apparently. I suppose users of PL lenses are ging to enjoy the benefits of hiring a matched compact prime set. they could then run 3 NEX5n's (bought for less than the cost of a weeks hire of a single sony F3) - running each camera with a different lens from the set, and get all their different angles in a single take. Shooting a pilot, significant savings could be made when shooting scenes/locations which need lots of lighting, manpower, logistics to be paid for. Shoot in 1 day instead of 3, at the expense of a little bit of detail. At the end of the shoot they can sell their NEX5n's and recoupe 70% of their money.
 
Samuel H said:
I hadn't even thought about that: with these cameras being so cheap and small, any production using very expensive glass might as well leave a 5N attached to each lens. 5N: the lens cap that records pretty pictures :) And I mean pretty!! I'm very happy with my new 5N, it seems to be a lot better than my old Canon.
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Indeed. IMO 95% of all indy film making is shot in 'pilot mode' with intention of promotion and acquisition of finance for the actual main production. Even if the production don't think that way, if their goal is to hit wide audience they are likely going to remake part or all of the production with them in mind once the financial backing appears.

Leaving scope for a financial backer to come in and see potential for improvement is better than shooting your pilot with just about enough money scraped together to hire the best equipment for just about enough time, and not having any real budget for the rest of the important stuff like boring transport/ logistical stuff to get you in the really nice locations, or to pay travel and lodging expenses to a particular actor who lives far away from the base camp. If you present a killer pilot where there may be a few no-no's about your story telling that a financial backer might want to iron out/tweek they are likely to see a lot more potential in it if they also see that it is a rough draft. Shoot it with an F65 and panavision glass and the backer is much less likely to not see any potential for improvement from their investment.
 
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