Sony M10 and MixpreD

Doug_EX

Doug_EX

Well-known member
Hi, I'm about to purchase a Sony PCM-10 to go with my MixPreD. But I had a question...what would be the best way to connect them together? Tape out of the mixer and then line-in to the Sony or line-out (xlr) from the mixer and line-in into the Sony?

Thanks!
 
If the D10 has a 3.5mm line input, use the MixPre's (3 .5 mm) 'Tape out' jack.
OTOH, the TA3 unbalanced mic-level output, could be also be used on to the recorder's (3 .5 mm) 'Mic in' jack.
I recommend the line in.
 
Rick R said:
If the D10 has a 3.5mm line input, use the MixPre's (3 .5 mm) 'Tape out' jack.
Click to expand...

This.

If you're using only a short run (6" or so), the unbalanced feed won't be an issue, since that's only a concern when running long distances (10' or more). I've used the MixPre-D to feed recorders from the Tape Out and have never had an issue with quality of the signal.

Using the TA3 "direct out" at mic-level to feed the M10 nullifies half the benefit of using the mixer, since it requires the pre-amps in the M10 to add gain.
 
I used the 3.5mm tape out on the sd too but was then told that using the xlr line out would give me a true line in to the audio recorder and also had the benefit of being a more rugged conection (xlr - at least on the mix pre-d).
Is there no difference between tape out and line out in this case?
 
ade4all said:
I used the 3.5mm tape out on the sd too but was then told that using the xlr line out would give me a true line in to the audio recorder and also had the benefit of being a more rugged conection (xlr - at least on the mix pre-d).
Is there no difference between tape out and line out in this case?
Click to expand...

XLR is certainly a more secure (read: locking) connection. That aside, there's only one difference in that the XLR outs on the MixPre-D at line-level are a balanced, +4dB line level while the 1/8" Tape Out is an unbalanced -10dB line-level. That can be a pretty big difference, but in terms of the original question, does this matter? In a bag, not at all.

When going to a recorder like the M10, which takes an unblanced -10dB line input via 1/8" connection, starting at the mixer with balanced +4dB line is going to require adapting and impedence matching to end up at an unbalanced, -10dB, 1/8" connection. Why go through all that when you have an output from the mixer that is perfectly matched to the input on the recorder?

I prefer to keep my mixer's XLR outs available for feeding a camera, so I use the Tape Out to feed my recorder. It's a 6" cable, so the risks of an unbalanced connection aren't a concern and there's no chance of someone tripping on the cable and pulling the 1/8" connector out since it's all self-contained in my audio bag.
 
Alex H. said:
XLR is certainly a more secure (read: locking) connection. That aside, there's only one difference in that the XLR outs on the MixPre-D at line-level are a balanced, +4dB line level while the 1/8" Tape Out is an unbalanced -10dB line-level. That can be a pretty big difference, but in terms of the original question, does this matter? In a bag, not at all.

When going to a recorder like the M10, which takes an unblanced -10dB line input via 1/8" connection, starting at the mixer with balanced +4dB line is going to require adapting and impedence matching to end up at an unbalanced, -10dB, 1/8" connection. Why go through all that when you have an output from the mixer that is perfectly matched to the input on the recorder?

I prefer to keep my mixer's XLR outs available for feeding a camera, so I use the Tape Out to feed my recorder. It's a 6" cable, so the risks of an unbalanced connection aren't a concern and there's no chance of someone tripping on the cable and pulling the 1/8" connector out since it's all self-contained in my audio bag.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for the info.
 
Perusing the Sony M10 spec.s and limited test parameters, if we assume the maximum line in level as stated is 2 volts. That works out to around +6dBu or so.. Hotter than most -10dB nominal inputs. (for instance, the H4n's max line level is +2dBu). Typical +4dB (nominal) program audio can have peaks to +20dBu (or so).
I have also never encountered or heard of a +4dB input being unbalanced and using a 3.5mm jack.
 
My understanding of this stuff is pretty poor. I had just read some posts here at DVXuser that it could take a +4dB signal. Here are a couple 1 2

This post at Taperssection says that it is capable of over +24dBu on the line in.
 
Not sure all the posters here have actually used the combination in question, so some confusion has crept in. Using an M10 with a Mixpre-D routinely, there is no doubt that the Mixpre-D's line level XLR output into the M10 is the way to go, with a very short cable with a pair of xlr connectors going to a single right-angled 3.5mm connector. It is not too hot a signal at all for the M10's line level input, as Ade has noted from his real world experience (along with many others over at Taperssection, who appreciate the M10's ability to handle a hotter signal than many other handheld recorders). There is no overdriving of the M10 input, and the Mixpre-D 1khz oscillator requires the M10 input gain knob to be set just below midway (around 4.75) to get a -12db level on the M10. Using the tape output with the M10 gain knob unchanged, sees the signal drop to -20db on the M10, and the gain knob has to be turned up to 7.25 on the M10 to get the level back to -12db. At that point you are using the M10 preamp gain, so, contrary to Alex's post, the Mixpre-D line out is, in reality, the perfectly matched output not its tape out. So, while the difference is not very significant, I cannot see why anyone interested in good stage gaining (let alone the more robust xlr connectors at one end at least, as has been pointed out) would use the tape out of the Mixpre-D when recording to a Sony M10, unless, of course, you need the balanced xlr outputs for something else (e.g. for camera). Hope that helps. Cheers, Roland.
 
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For the past 18 months I've been using the MixPre-D tape-out with a Sony M10 line-in with no issues at all. Testing between using the tape-out versus an XLR line-in, reveals no real difference in audio quality, with the XLR locking feature being the one physical difference. I use a PortaBrace MixPre bag with the M10 tucked into the front pocket of the bag, connected together with an 8 inch 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable.

In terms of audio performance, the Sony M10 is the limiting factor, with a noise-floor of -75 dB RMS when recording using the line-in connection. ( -75 dB RMS is still very good for low cost gear )
 
TheDingo said:
For the past 18 months I've been using the MixPre-D tape-out with a Sony M10 line-in with no issues at all. Testing between using the tape-out versus an XLR line-in, reveals no real difference in audio quality, with the XLR locking feature being the one physical difference. I use a PortaBrace MixPre bag with the M10 tucked into the front pocket of the bag, connected together with an 8 inch 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable.

In terms of audio performance, the Sony M10 is the limiting factor, with a noise-floor of -75 dB RMS when recording using the line-in connection. ( -75 dB RMS is still very good for low cost gear )
Click to expand...
I bought exactly the same cable. The M10 will be my backup...i'll be running 2 xlr cables to my a cam.
will the sound quality of the M10 be quite similar to the sound recorded on a camcorder?
 
Bought it a few weeks ago. Love the form factor, love the physical level knob, insane battery life. I don't use line in, but it should handle an SD mixpre just fine. The guys on taperssection swear by it. This is me speaking into the PCM M10 off axis from about 7 inches @ my house (not sound treated), hand held and unprocessed, strait from the recorder:

https://www.freesound.org/people/Filmbrute/sounds/223692/

Mostly ambient stuff I have recorded on the go randomly with the internals: https://www.freesound.org/people/Filmbrute/
 
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