Sony launches NEX-VG20 with 1080p24 /60p !
- Thread starter joe1946
- Start date
starmanric
Active member
Anyone know if it has mic in and hdmi out?
Yeah, it has the mini audio jack, I can't remember what it's called, but no XLR inputs. It'll make a professional audio tech cringe.
It has a mini-HDMI port, too.
joe1946
Veteran
Here are a few 1080p pre-production VG20 YouTube clips from videoaktiv in Deutschland: http://www.videoaktiv.de/Praxis+Technik/CAMCORDER-Hintergrundinfo/Sony-NEX-VG20-Testszenen-mit-dem-Vorserienmodell.html
Looks like they've posted the original files for downloading. I don't have time to download them right now, but looking at the YouTube clips at 720p on a 42" screen, I don't see any moire on the roofs or in the water.
Looks like they've posted the original files for downloading. I don't have time to download them right now, but looking at the YouTube clips at 720p on a 42" screen, I don't see any moire on the roofs or in the water.
qazwsx
Well-known member
In the MTS files, there's definitely a bit of aliasing and moire. In SonyNEX_VG20_Vorserie_Szene_1 in the railing on the right side in the background there's aliasing, as well as around some of the windows of the houses. In SonyNEX_VG20_Vorserie_Szene_2 on the water in the distance there's some moire occurring.
It's definitely minimal in my opinion, but it's still there.
On the good side, it seems to handle jello decently well in this video: http://vimeo.com/28230799
It's definitely minimal in my opinion, but it's still there.
On the good side, it seems to handle jello decently well in this video: http://vimeo.com/28230799
Don't worry yet - a "review" of a pre-pro camera on a convention floor is hardly conclusive. It takes time to dial in any camera - even with "alone time," the manual, and access to info websites like this one.
At least it seems to have clean HDMI out (well, the ability to turn off the display in any case).
At least it seems to have clean HDMI out (well, the ability to turn off the display in any case).
I'm not giving up yet. The same harsh reviews of the vg20 give raves to the 5n, now maybe its because its 3x the price it should be miles better. I've been giving critical looks at 5n footage and to me looks fantastic. There is no reason to expect the VG20 should be worse. The difference in price can be more than made up by the fact that I'd have no problem showing up for low budget paid work with the vg20, nex 5n yeah right. Slap on an xlr adapter, and sound should be good enough for most uses.
I'm not expecting just as good as an fs100 for less than 1/2 the price, but it should be good enough for where I'm at now to get into a large sensor, and start collecting good manual lenses that will move with an upgrade.
At the speed of development and changeover it won't be long till the 5k prosumer cams will have a 10bit 422 codec on board, at which point they will be worth serious consideration. Another year, maybe 2 consumer gear will more than rival.
I'm not expecting just as good as an fs100 for less than 1/2 the price, but it should be good enough for where I'm at now to get into a large sensor, and start collecting good manual lenses that will move with an upgrade.
At the speed of development and changeover it won't be long till the 5k prosumer cams will have a 10bit 422 codec on board, at which point they will be worth serious consideration. Another year, maybe 2 consumer gear will more than rival.
I just got my NEX VG-20 and took it out of the box today. So far, it seems to be nothing like either the hater or fanboy reviews. I was pretty surprised by it.
It's very plasticky and feels like the "Handycam". Menus and setup are nothing like the CineAlta family - very consumer oriented. At least the menus are not by Canon or Panasonic, though.
The build is weird. It's tiny. Cheap in some places, and pricey in others. Definitely a hybrid. The handle feels weird, and it sits very strangely in my hand when strapped on, but the mic pod is quality and both screens are solid - nice and clear in both the eyepiece and flip out monitor. Viewability and monitor honesty is WAYYY better than EX series or anything Panasonic has going (yes, I am talking to you AF100). Eyepiece is just like the SLT A55, which blows away monitoring on the back of a Canon DSLR.
Jacks feel cheap, but hey . . . I'm used to that. All the new cameras have connectors as their Achilles heel - look at the crap on the EOS C300 (audio) or even the s**t connectors on the RED ONE.
Mini jack in. I can deal with that. Lots of adapters, mixers and strain relief from my DSLR rigs.
I set it up on tripod and let it run for 73 minutes until it ran out of memory chip (SDHC class 10, 16GB). Sweet! AC power. No overheat.
I tried again at 60P. Still no overheat. 1920X1080 at 60P frames with no heat problems after 35 mins.
I'm loving the AC power. Cheap jack, like I said tho.
Next some real audio testing. Mic is very responsive, and the attenuation in the menu is right on. No one-setting "attenuator" bulls**t, it scales all the way down to like 50dB and does a +12dB at the top end. Does great off the mini jack with my wireless rig, and off my mixer with a phantom powered condenser mic. I can't hear any audio problems - will probably dig more into this later with some FFT testing, but it's ready to rock and roll for video use. (You can tell I'm a recovering recording engineer, huh?).
The built in mic reminds me of the VX-1000. Picks up a lot of lens noise from my 35mm prime.
I'm using the LA-EA2 because I have invested in Sony A glass and I'm not drinking the E-mount koolaid yet. Focus responsiveness on that is perfect. Better than I am manually, and it gives me all of the same focus indicators that I am used to on the NEX and SLT. Flips into manual no problem. The only downside(s) I can see to the LA-EA2 is that it eats some of my light (not sure how much yet), and it doesn't let me use the facial recognition or advanced exposure settings that I've gotten used to on the NEX5. Also, the bottom of the La-EA2 is about 3/4" below the body of the VG-20, so I will have to take care with a tripod plate, or mount to the tripod thread on the LA-EA2.
Wow! It gains up like crazy, but I'm shooting indoors at night and I don't see a lot of noise. I think that's a perk of AVCHD and the new cameras, they gain up like crazy, but the visible noise stays pretty low-level. 30db and the picture looks stable,
My whole idea about buying this camera was to be able to shoot low dof 1920X1080P at 60 for less than $5000, and to overcome the many, many, many limitations of DSLR shooting (mpst notably and disasterous for me have been lack of audio monitoring and adjustment, lack of AC power support, and overheats). So far, the camera does not dissapoint (much). I went into this with eyes wide open - it's not a $5000 camera, or even a $2000 camera. It was $1599 out the door.
Most of my shoots don't need AF100 or FS100 or a RED or any of that s**t. I need reliable and capable 1080P, and if I can get 20+ Mbps AVCHD and not some bulls**t MJPEG container-y thing designed for 2007, then I am stoked. So far, so good.
It's very plasticky and feels like the "Handycam". Menus and setup are nothing like the CineAlta family - very consumer oriented. At least the menus are not by Canon or Panasonic, though.
The build is weird. It's tiny. Cheap in some places, and pricey in others. Definitely a hybrid. The handle feels weird, and it sits very strangely in my hand when strapped on, but the mic pod is quality and both screens are solid - nice and clear in both the eyepiece and flip out monitor. Viewability and monitor honesty is WAYYY better than EX series or anything Panasonic has going (yes, I am talking to you AF100). Eyepiece is just like the SLT A55, which blows away monitoring on the back of a Canon DSLR.
Jacks feel cheap, but hey . . . I'm used to that. All the new cameras have connectors as their Achilles heel - look at the crap on the EOS C300 (audio) or even the s**t connectors on the RED ONE.
Mini jack in. I can deal with that. Lots of adapters, mixers and strain relief from my DSLR rigs.
I set it up on tripod and let it run for 73 minutes until it ran out of memory chip (SDHC class 10, 16GB). Sweet! AC power. No overheat.
I tried again at 60P. Still no overheat. 1920X1080 at 60P frames with no heat problems after 35 mins.
I'm loving the AC power. Cheap jack, like I said tho.
Next some real audio testing. Mic is very responsive, and the attenuation in the menu is right on. No one-setting "attenuator" bulls**t, it scales all the way down to like 50dB and does a +12dB at the top end. Does great off the mini jack with my wireless rig, and off my mixer with a phantom powered condenser mic. I can't hear any audio problems - will probably dig more into this later with some FFT testing, but it's ready to rock and roll for video use. (You can tell I'm a recovering recording engineer, huh?).
The built in mic reminds me of the VX-1000. Picks up a lot of lens noise from my 35mm prime.
I'm using the LA-EA2 because I have invested in Sony A glass and I'm not drinking the E-mount koolaid yet. Focus responsiveness on that is perfect. Better than I am manually, and it gives me all of the same focus indicators that I am used to on the NEX and SLT. Flips into manual no problem. The only downside(s) I can see to the LA-EA2 is that it eats some of my light (not sure how much yet), and it doesn't let me use the facial recognition or advanced exposure settings that I've gotten used to on the NEX5. Also, the bottom of the La-EA2 is about 3/4" below the body of the VG-20, so I will have to take care with a tripod plate, or mount to the tripod thread on the LA-EA2.
Wow! It gains up like crazy, but I'm shooting indoors at night and I don't see a lot of noise. I think that's a perk of AVCHD and the new cameras, they gain up like crazy, but the visible noise stays pretty low-level. 30db and the picture looks stable,
My whole idea about buying this camera was to be able to shoot low dof 1920X1080P at 60 for less than $5000, and to overcome the many, many, many limitations of DSLR shooting (mpst notably and disasterous for me have been lack of audio monitoring and adjustment, lack of AC power support, and overheats). So far, the camera does not dissapoint (much). I went into this with eyes wide open - it's not a $5000 camera, or even a $2000 camera. It was $1599 out the door.
Most of my shoots don't need AF100 or FS100 or a RED or any of that s**t. I need reliable and capable 1080P, and if I can get 20+ Mbps AVCHD and not some bulls**t MJPEG container-y thing designed for 2007, then I am stoked. So far, so good.
I miss the CineAlta color toning, because I got used to it with the digibeta and then F750/F900 and then the rest of the CineAlta line. It was nice to be able to swap picture profiles and to be able to show the director, client and crew how pretty it was.
I'm still not much of a "looks" guy, I generally shoot corporate and so I want to capture the same look that I get with lighting. Nothing worse than "overly filmic" in my opinion - that's for the film school crowd - but that's just my preference. The color adjustment tools in the white balance section of the camera seem adequate for me . . . I think the same is true of the Sont SLT-A55. Vastly improved from the T1i/T2i and 7D, and easier for video operation than the 5DmkII. I need Magic Bullet with the Canon models, and haven't touched them (except to play with Colorista) in the Sony world.
My whole toning/shaping methodology changed with the DSLRs though . . . and I now expect to shoot flatter and more "camera native" and then correct/tweak a little in post. I usually use the spot metering and then do a little white balance tweak. The monitor and viewfinder on this camera and the SLT-A55 is so superior to the AF100 and Canon's rear LCD panel - it's just not worth the comparison. I can usually get good color and a nice balance with the provided color balance adjustment toolset.
I guess that if I really needed the exceptional color space offering of the FS100 or AF101 I would have spent the extra cash for HD-SDI output and capture. That's big bucks, though! My current plan is to purchase and use the BlackMagic HyperDeck for greenscreen and extreme slow motion/overcrank. I'm testing the workflow in my "studio" (aka the living room) with the Intensity Shuttle.
It all comes down to toolset versus budget for me. I'm a microbudget guy. I shoot 2X a month for $350/day or project rate at $1000. I do my own editing. I do my own color correction. I don't have $30K to sink into new gear every year.
Also, I REALLY like the small form factor cameras. I shot for years with full size video equipment, hauling **** around by myself because I can rarely hire a grip and a truck and an AC and all the other requirements (big lenses, big batteries, big tripods, enormous heavy cheese plates, etc.). Even the FS100 seems bulky to me, and handholding the AF100 is a fricking nightmare.
On the sensor side, it seems unneccesary to have a S35 sensor when the most data I am likely to ever need is contained in the APS-C form factor. Also, high quality 2K lenses are wayyy cheaper, which means I have a lot more options. I hate to say it, but the best DSLR lenses (even L glass) do not hold up to 4K, in my opinion . . . give me a Nikkor or Minolta glass and I can make beautiful 2K pictures.
I'm still not much of a "looks" guy, I generally shoot corporate and so I want to capture the same look that I get with lighting. Nothing worse than "overly filmic" in my opinion - that's for the film school crowd - but that's just my preference. The color adjustment tools in the white balance section of the camera seem adequate for me . . . I think the same is true of the Sont SLT-A55. Vastly improved from the T1i/T2i and 7D, and easier for video operation than the 5DmkII. I need Magic Bullet with the Canon models, and haven't touched them (except to play with Colorista) in the Sony world.
My whole toning/shaping methodology changed with the DSLRs though . . . and I now expect to shoot flatter and more "camera native" and then correct/tweak a little in post. I usually use the spot metering and then do a little white balance tweak. The monitor and viewfinder on this camera and the SLT-A55 is so superior to the AF100 and Canon's rear LCD panel - it's just not worth the comparison. I can usually get good color and a nice balance with the provided color balance adjustment toolset.
I guess that if I really needed the exceptional color space offering of the FS100 or AF101 I would have spent the extra cash for HD-SDI output and capture. That's big bucks, though! My current plan is to purchase and use the BlackMagic HyperDeck for greenscreen and extreme slow motion/overcrank. I'm testing the workflow in my "studio" (aka the living room) with the Intensity Shuttle.
It all comes down to toolset versus budget for me. I'm a microbudget guy. I shoot 2X a month for $350/day or project rate at $1000. I do my own editing. I do my own color correction. I don't have $30K to sink into new gear every year.
Also, I REALLY like the small form factor cameras. I shot for years with full size video equipment, hauling **** around by myself because I can rarely hire a grip and a truck and an AC and all the other requirements (big lenses, big batteries, big tripods, enormous heavy cheese plates, etc.). Even the FS100 seems bulky to me, and handholding the AF100 is a fricking nightmare.
On the sensor side, it seems unneccesary to have a S35 sensor when the most data I am likely to ever need is contained in the APS-C form factor. Also, high quality 2K lenses are wayyy cheaper, which means I have a lot more options. I hate to say it, but the best DSLR lenses (even L glass) do not hold up to 4K, in my opinion . . . give me a Nikkor or Minolta glass and I can make beautiful 2K pictures.
Thanks for the writeup, videohead. I rented the VG20 this past weekend to do a side-by-side comparison with the GH2. Bottom Line: Pros: The camera produces great images, but softer than the GH2. Beats the unhacked GH2 in low light. Unlimited shooting time and high-quality audio without an external recorder. Cons: lack of profiles and no color/sharpness/contrast adjustment tools. Relatively high price.
My preview writeup is posted at: http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com/2011/12/gh2-and-vg20-compared-first-english.html
Cheers,
Bill
P.S. Moderators - it would certainly be nice to have a Sony NEX-VG10/20 forum
My preview writeup is posted at: http://hybridcamerarevolution.blogspot.com/2011/12/gh2-and-vg20-compared-first-english.html
Cheers,
Bill
P.S. Moderators - it would certainly be nice to have a Sony NEX-VG10/20 forum
Here's a quick video about the camera:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c5iqsjcYlg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c5iqsjcYlg
Yeah, I saw that too. Not really a proper review (and always be a wee wary of a review from a place that actually sells the product), although it was fun to watch. As is true of a lot of their reviews, not much in the way of actual footage (looks like the majority of the review was actually shot with an AF100).
What little footage there was immediately shows why you want to be able to control the blacks/contrasts, etc - the snow was blowing out a lot of the footage.
Credit where it's due - he did point out the lack of features, rightly pointing out that a proper DP would likely find the camera too limiting; that the camera seems to be aimed essentially at soccer moms. And he was mystified as to why the 5n has more features; asked for a ND wheel.
But he did love the mic, which other then the size of the sensor, seems to be the camera's greatest strength.
What little footage there was immediately shows why you want to be able to control the blacks/contrasts, etc - the snow was blowing out a lot of the footage.
Credit where it's due - he did point out the lack of features, rightly pointing out that a proper DP would likely find the camera too limiting; that the camera seems to be aimed essentially at soccer moms. And he was mystified as to why the 5n has more features; asked for a ND wheel.
But he did love the mic, which other then the size of the sensor, seems to be the camera's greatest strength.
John - the mic is nice, but I can buy a nice surround sound external mic.
The VG20's greatest strength, in my view, is interchangeable lenses on a camcorder body with 24p/60p, unlimited clip length and mic/headphone jacks.
It is the only camera with that feature set.
When I rented it last weekend, I really liked having the ability to swap old Canon FD and Nikon lenses between the GH2 and the VG20 - and the low-light results I got with a $50 f1.8 lens.
Cheers,
Bill
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I am seriously considering a VG20 as a modest cost interim upgrade over my GL2 for now. The practical camcorder operating features and form factor appeal to me over rigging a DSLR for utility video production. I have a nice selection of Minolta MD Rokkors that would work well with it.