Sony July 26th

Cinescopophilia says the PMW-200 will possibly have 1/2" chips - or chip - and MPEG 422. Maybe 50mbps? Seems like it, the PMW-100 does.
This sounds like a replacement for the EX1 - same chip size, but better codec.
If so, it sounds like another winner for Sony. I expect them to sell a bunch of the cameras. I was expecting something like this from Sony, after the PMW-100 came out.

http://cinescopophilia.com/first-pictures-of-the-sony-pmw-200-xdcam-camera-the-next-big-thing/
 
EX1 with better codec? It's a good update, but hardly the next big thing.

Unless it's a new family of MPEG4 based codecs like AVC Ultra. That would be big for Sony.
 
Wow the next big thing was literally the pwm-200. It took them 4 years to update the lcd and codec of the ex1. As much as I was impressed when they released the original ex1 I am now underwelmed by this announcement.
 
PMW-200 = 6600€
XF305 = 6240€
XF300 = 5300€
HPX250 = 4600€
(prices taken from CVP)


For the price I would still buy the HPX. But if I wanted a better lens I would go for the XF300. I can't see a scenario where I would opt for the new PMW200.
 
-Doesn't have shot transition feature (which was one of the main reasons why i chose my ex1r over a dslr as my first camera)
-Can't connect my dynacore 6600mah battery
-Can't rotate handgrip
-Some buttons' placements are awkward and they are missing orange backgrounds (probably left missing for pmw-200r :) )
-Still no 1080p60fps
-Possible failure of MxM+sdhc combo in MXF format.
-Battery compartment is one piece with the body (excessive heat someone?)

I was a bit sad thinking this new cam would make my ex1r obsolete. I'm glad it didn't turn out that way.

From an amateur's pov; even if i didn't have ex1r, i still wouldn't buy pmw200 now. Would pick either a used ex1r or a dslr. Broadcasters or someone similar might be interested in this new cam but even then it has a fixed uninterchangeable lens. As of 2012 (soon 2013) i don't think people will be much satisfied with pmw200 and i think it's a born dead product from Sony.

In the end i'm glad there's competition and panasonic gh3 will be out soon aswell. I wish good luck to Sony :)

edit: S&Q and auto iris buttons are gone too. Basically a dumbed down ex1r with 50mbits 4:2:2 recording.
 
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I think it's a necessary update to the XDCam family, and will likely find a lot of fans amongst the broadcast world who need to replace/upgrade their XDCam EX models. But those that have already moved into the XF300/305 world will likely not switch over, I think. There are pro's and con's to either camera. Perhaps Sony will get aggressive with it's pricing in 6 months or so to better compete with the Canon cams.

Nice cam, I wouldn't mind using it!
 
KINOKS said:
For the price I would still buy the HPX. But if I wanted a better lens I would go for the XF300. I can't see a scenario where I would opt for the new PMW200.
Click to expand...

I'm weighing a new purchase and it's this or the HPX250. (I'm not invested in either SxS or P2 at the moment.) Being all-in-one, rig-less handheld and having the ability to shoot 50Mbps @ 4:2:2 is a requirement.

I tested the XF300 for a day and liked the image but personally couldn't get along with the very heavy forward balance of the body. I also tested the XF100 but found the manual controls lacking and the low-light image sub-par.

Compared to the HPX250, the PMW-200 appears to have slightly better lens ergonomics for manual control, and with a larger sensor it'll in all likelihood perform better -- if not much better -- in low light exposure than the HPX's 1/3" sensor. Plus, the PMW-200 has much better manual focus assist options.

So I'm just curious what would make you personally buy the HPX? Is it for price alone? Is there another tipping point? Current US price as of July 26 for the HPX is $5300.

I'd love to consider other opinions, as I'm fairly new as a shooter and this would be my first major purchase. Thanks.
 
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I have a friend, great story teller, shooting producer, works for the beeb, shooting on a SD z7

knows minimal camera technique, AF, AIris, AWB shooter

The fact he can be let out on 50mbs long form BBC work with minimal retratraining is a 'big thing'

a big bad thing!

S
 
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jbklynnyc said:
So I'm just curious what would make you personally buy the HPX? Is it for price alone? Is there another tipping point? Current US price as of July 26 for the HPX is $5300.
Click to expand...


I already have a HPX171, it's batteries and P2 cards. But even if I didn't, I still prefer the 100Mbs, I-frame codec of the HPX versus the mpeg2 50Mbs Long gop. Plus the price difference.

Hpx250 costs 4600€ and the PMW200 costs 6500€. That's a 2000€ difference (2450$). I don't see where that price difference is justified.
In the case of XF305 you make up the price difference relatively quickly because of the low cost media the XF305 uses compared to the high cost of P2 cards. But the Sony uses SxS which costs actually more per GB then a P2 card does. The codec is only 50Mbs so one could argue that the price of SxS is lower but still... It just costs to much. If it would cost 5500€ I would consider it (if I was in the market).

Besides, I really like the aesthetics of the Panasonic cams better versus the Sonys. And the small difference in chip size is negligible (some would argue not, but to me, it is). It's still a small chip camera 1/3 or 1/2. Don't care about the extra stop of light you get and aesthetically (FOV wise) they are the same.

The only reall bonus to me is the manual lens. I hate a servo focus lens!
 
It looks like this is the same lens as the EX1 & a big thing between this Sony PMW-200 vs Canon XF30# & Panasonic HPX250 is the lens.

Both Canon & Panasonic have long zoom (20x+) ranges which is nice, but the iris stops down as you zoom in. Sony is only 14x zoom, but you don't lose any light as the iris stays open through the entire zoom.

Also the lens on the EX1 is the nicest "unibody" lens I have ever used. The zoom, focus & iris all have markings & can be used manually like a broadcast lens. Not as nice as a broadcast Fuji or Canon lens, but leaps above the lenses I've used while shooting on a HVX, DVX, Z1U, etc.

To me, this is one thing that I think they got right about this camera & sets it apart from the competition.
 
A few notes of interest from the manual.

Pg. 30 of manual:
"Slow Motion recording by the Slow & Quick Motion recording function (page 50) cannot be made with a
“Memory Stick” or an SDHC card."
“Memory Stick” media and SDHC cards do not
support recording with UDF." -I guess that means no 50mbs 422 with card adapters.

Pg. 21
"The AC adaptor cannot be connected to the camcorder while the battery pack is inserted." -No third party batteries with power cables like the four I have.

Pg.58
"HG4 -A gamma table for turning 460% D-range input into 109% output." -Interesting..

Well Im sure I missed a few good new things along with some bad as well. Overall Im really not impressed unless the S/N ratio is WAY better then the EX-1. I might be wrong but just from what I've read, The PMW-200 doesn't seem to have a significant advantage over my EX1 and Samurai recorder combo. At least not a $8,000 one. I really wanted it to though.

*Good review from Allister Chapman here:
http://www.xdcam-user.com/2012/07/50-megabits-for-the-masses-the-new-sony-pmw-200/
 
I didn't see this before, but this camera has 4 hyper-gamma settings! Well, that's something that's worth more $$$. I think this is the first
camcorder in this price range that has a S-LOG type of gamma. Isn't it?
 
KINOKS said:
I didn't see this before, but this camera has 4 hyper-gamma settings! Well, that's something that's worth more $$$. I think this is the first
camcorder in this price range that has a S-LOG type of gamma. Isn't it?
Click to expand...

Blackmagic Cinema Camera has a "film" log mode for $3000 US.
 
zijital said:
It looks like this is the same lens as the EX1 & a big thing between this Sony PMW-200 vs Canon XF30# & Panasonic HPX250 is the lens.

Both Canon & Panasonic have long zoom (20x+) ranges which is nice, but the iris stops down as you zoom in. Sony is only 14x zoom, but you don't lose any light as the iris stays open through the entire zoom.

Also the lens on the EX1 is the nicest "unibody" lens I have ever used. The zoom, focus & iris all have markings & can be used manually like a broadcast lens. Not as nice as a broadcast Fuji or Canon lens, but leaps above the lenses I've used while shooting on a HVX, DVX, Z1U, etc.

To me, this is one thing that I think they got right about this camera & sets it apart from the competition.
Click to expand...

the ex1 when zoomed in does stop down same as all the others, Sony just don't mention that in their literature
 
Fotojorno said:
Pg. 21
"The AC adaptor cannot be connected to the camcorder while the battery pack is inserted." -No third party batteries with power cables like the four I have.

...
*Good review from Allister Chapman here:
http://www.xdcam-user.com/2012/07/50-megabits-for-the-masses-the-new-sony-pmw-200/
Click to expand...

The DC jack really seems like Sony giving the finger to the 3rd party battery makers. Though looking at the photos from Allister, I wonder if there is still a way the battery makers could come up with a solution that still works with the same power via DC jack, held by the battery compartment, trick they've done with the EX series. It'd take some creativity & a whole new design, but it might work.

The only thing that I could think of this not working is if Sony disables the DC power when a battery is locked in.
 
ade4all said:
the ex1 when zoomed in does stop down same as all the others, Sony just don't mention that in their literature
Click to expand...

I just looked at a EX1. F stop is 1.9 zoomed wide, 1.9 zoomed tight. Do you know something I don't? If so, can you share it? Cause I don't see any light loss.

On the stock Zeiss lens from a Sony Z7U the lens goes from f1.6 to f2, I can see that loss, minimal, but I see it.

When I tested out a AC160 (same lens as HPX250) I could very much see some massive light loss when it goes from 1.6 to 3.5. Since that is about two full stops (or losing 75% of your light from wide to tight), it is very easy to see.

XF300, according to the specs since I haven't held one, is a 18x lens that goes from 1.8 to 2.8, just over a full stop of light.

Each camera has different offering; the Sony doesn't lose light but doesn't have as much range, Panasonic has a very long zoom range (it goes wider & longer than the other two) but looses a lot of light; Canon is a middle of the road in zoom range & light loss.
 
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