Sony hdw f900 - Today

D

David Kalver

Member
Hello,
I was wondering why there appears to be a lack of Sony HDW f900 users in the modern age?

Obviously the fact there is 'better' options out there, higher resolutions, smaller size options etc etc must be a part of the reason...and likely the cost of a Sony HDW F900 isn't that far off from a more compact DSLR so...maybe I've answered my own question. :lipsrseal

Yet it has a solid history in Cinema now, perhaps even more so than current options. With films like 'Once Upon a Time in Mexico', 'Collateral' and the brilliant 'Freeze Frame' with Lee Evans.



I ask because the price has seemed to have dropped significantly, it shoots HD, it looks amazing for achieving that 'quick fall to blacks' visual look of the 90s without overly attacking the Curve Values in post.
I currently shoot on a BMCC as a Cinematographer/Co-Director and, it has amazing dynamic range of course and many other pros. However, I use various layers, blending modes, Curves and other tricks to acheive such look.

See here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9woVSupsaQ

I'm currently looking to buy another Camera to play around with, and have a client who wants a video that looks similar to Massive Attack - Butterfly caught.

See here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g45PgMJMqLY

I'm looking to acquire a HD camera that 'falls-to-black' in such a way that the HVX200 did. The Sony HDW F900 seems a good choice, be it bulky. Is there any WARNINGS I should be aware of before I purchase one? The batteries seem quite expensive.

Thanks, David.
(Please don't turn this into a sales lecture about DSLR's :happy:)
 
I think a lot of comments will apply to the F35, about which there is a lot of talk on this forum - and which has had probably an even more extreme price drop, from $200,000 to about $5,000! One problem would be that if anything did go wrong and needed repairing or replacing you'd either face a huge bill or not be able to get it done at all. You mention batteries - yes, expensive, and the cameras are power hungry compared to CMOS ones. Low light sensitivity is not great either compared to today's offerings. And then obviously there's on-paper spec - 1080 at max 30fps, while the Sony FS7 and F5 will do 180-240fps.
I'm with you though, give me one of these old beasts any day, as long as it meets your specs. Good luck.
Steve
 
The F900 was an awesome camera in it's day. It was the first HD camera that I shot with. I do not know how many hours behind the viewfinder I logged on it(hundreds, at least). It was heavy and power hungry AND it didn't have HD-SDI out(the original versions, the R does), but it made a pretty damn picture. I haven't used one or had a call for one since maybe '06 or '07(and I'm probably being generous). The design is at least 15 years old. You can find them on eBay for pretty cheap(a few $K) and Sony still has them listed at over $80,000 on their site new. I remember when they were listing at well OVER $100,000 for the original versions. I knew a few guys that owned them, then, too. Steve makes some great points about parts and service. These(the original versions) could be very finicky cameras. I shot with several that had weird bugs and a few that completely let me down in the field(replacement cameras had to be brought it, one had to be replaced in the middle of a shoot day). And don't forget, HDCAM recorded a downsampled image of 1440x1080, not a full 1920x1080. The F900 does shoot 60(59.94), but it's interlaced.

Unless I had a specific need for an F900 today, I can't say that I'd buy one even at the cheap prices that they can be had for, now.
 
David, what's the resolution you need? Do you need S35 depth of field or 2/3"? Do you have existing b4 mount 2/3" lenses or would you have to purchase those as well? These are just some questions to ask. If you don't want the sub sampled 1440/1080, you can record the output to an external device - assuming you have an SDI version camera.

Can you get a used f900 serviced? I'd say as long as it's the f900r and Sony is still selling it they will have parts. PDW-F800 would be another possible choice in this class of camera. Using in-camera gamma / matrix set ups you should be able to achieve similar look on f800.

As far as films using the f900, much of Collateral was shot with the Thomson Viper camera, a small amount was shot Panavised F900 and an even smaller amount on film for high speed purposes with Arri 435 camera.
 
So the F900 perhaps should be avoided and go for F900R? As I've noticed the F900 original is almost being given away on eBay, but the F900R still costs a fair bit more.

Other than bugginess and SDI out, what other differences are there between F900 and F900R?
 
Steer clear of the F900 and get the F900R (or if you don't require 24fps the HDW-790P is the same camera without the 24fps ability) and record the HDSDI to an external recorder like the Black Magic Video Assist or Atomos Samurai or similar. You will get far better quality than using tape and it will be much cheaper. There are still some serious costs to get it kitted out but there can be advantages to using B4 lenses unless you are after the reduced depth of field of larger sensor cameras.
 
steve phillipps said:
I think a lot of comments will apply to the F35, about which there is a lot of talk on this forum - and which has had probably an even more extreme price drop, from $200,000 to about $5,000! One problem would be that if anything did go wrong and needed repairing or replacing you'd either face a huge bill or not be able to get it done at all. You mention batteries - yes, expensive, and the cameras are power hungry compared to CMOS ones. Low light sensitivity is not great either compared to today's offerings. And then obviously there's on-paper spec - 1080 at max 30fps, while the Sony FS7 and F5 will do 180-240fps.
I'm with you though, give me one of these old beasts any day, as long as it meets your specs. Good luck.
Steve
Click to expand...

The F35 will do 1080p @ 50fps Steve (at 12-bit and 4:4:4 with additional accessories), the F23 will do up 60fps. So the cameras can do a genuine 2x slow-motion (which is the speed I shoot about 90% of slowmotion work I ever use for narrative work, regardless of the camera I'm using).

One very cool thing about picking up 2/3" gear at the moment, is that you can get things like Zeiss Digi Primes for a song at the moment (incredible lenses, that were $30k EACH not too long ago). And when you want to move up, the Varicam HS offers 14-stops of DR, 2500 ISO as a base, and basically the purest colours of any digital camera going at the moment - so you'd be able to capture thoroughly modern images on it (with your shiny, absurdly cheap glass)! :)
 
After having 3 years with the varicam and now a little over a year with an F900 in terms of personal ownership I needed to edit my respose to this for any future people who stumble here.

The Varicam and F900 both have their strengths and weaknesses. Tape wise they both are 8bit which can be a pro or a con depending on your needs and workflow.. for me, 8bit is more than fine. the varicam's colorspace is 4:2:2 on tape and sony is 3:1:1 on tape.. honestly to my eye i dont see any differences.. maybe if i shot green screen i would. the varicam has built in HD SDI where as you need an HDCA-901 or Miranda DVC800 back attached to the F900 for HD SDI. While both cameras are 10bit uncompressed 4:2:2 via the HD SDI, both can suffer from strange artifacting around hot signal areas, mostly lights or heavy contrast because they were not programed to intake 10bits of information for recording.. their HD SDI was only meant for monitoring. The Varicam has Film_REC gamma which allows you to push the camera to about 11.5 stops or so. The F900/3 models can allow you to input custom made gamma curves via a sony memorystick using the CVPeditor software. This feature alone I feel makes the F900 a superior camera but i will continue. For the most film like results with an F900, the Digial Praxis Cineon curve at its highest values are the best. I've gotten around 13 stops out of the camera, beautiful stuff. The varicam is 720p, F900 1080p. Personally, the F900 is def a camera that can be used in 2019 as is the varicam. Personally, the only thing about the varicam that I enjoyed over the F900 was its ability to do in camera speed ramping with the frame rate, that was really cool.

The varicam is like having an AATON XTR and the F900 is like having a 35mm cinema camera in an ENG body. Esp the Panavision version which I own.

Dont get me wrong, there are many newer cameras out there that are great, but, I am a bit old school and enjoy a nicely made CCD system.. really not a fan of CMOS. I know this thread is old, but, if you still have questions about the F900 message me.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top