SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

Anhar_Miah

Anhar_Miah

Veteran
Over at www.sonyhdvinfo.com

A chap by the name Kerr Cook will actually be seeing a demo and have hands on experiance of the Sony HDR-FX1.

He has asked that if any anyone has one questions about the camera he can ask them on Wednesday (maybe a few hours away) its Wednesday already here in the UK, dont know if this will reach in time for you guys.


Sorry Jarred not trying to promote another site oops!
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

is the HD/HDV standard worldwide or will we again have a 25p version without any pulldown. would that then change the image?
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

HDTV is an entirely new format and should theoretically be implementable worldwide. There is support for 50i/60i and also 24P/25P/30P/60P, but the scanning rates are not tied to any specific country... I personally think they're in there to make for easier up-converts of existing standard-def material.

With that said, European PAL countries seem to have no interest whatsoever in HDTV. Japan's been highly interested in it for 20+ years, and America seems to have a marginal interest, Europe doesn't care, and apparently Australia is quite interested.

HDTV is neither PAL nor NTSC, it is HDTV. It could/should be a worldwide standard, and all-inclusive of all the common frame rates.

With that said, notice that the European version of the JVC HD1 HDV camera has *NO* high-def mode! They took the high-def 720P mode completely out of the European release of the camera.... most likely due to the complete lack of HDTV interest in European countries.
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=nws;num=1094660569;start=0#4 date=09/09/04 at 10:50:37]
With that said, notice that the European version of the JVC HD1 HDV camera has *NO* high-def mode!  They took the high-def 720P mode completely out of the European release of the camera.... most likely due to the complete lack of HDTV interest in European countries.[/quote]

What did they market it as, then? Just another camcorder?
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

It's still widescreen, and it's still progressive-scan at 720x576 at 25P and at 50P. So it still has unique features, just no high-def.
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

So what are the rumors on the pro model some said that 24p wasn't in the spec when I asked earlier or truthfully what are the Panny rumors?

I like the Panny Cinegamma modes in all three formats DVX, SDX900 on the Varicam.
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

There will unquestionably not be 24P on the Pro model. Sony has made it very clear that they consider this camera (and its pro variant) to be all about resolution, and they basically said "if you want 24P, this is not the camera for you."

My guess is that the pro version will be along the lines of the DSR250: shoulder-mount, large cassettes, XLR audio, and a real viewfinder.
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

You are right Barry....as usual.

After their pleasant experience of PAL video for years, and early adaption of 16:9 format, a sense of satisfaction is already there in Europe. How long that would stay, I really can not say. However, I am sure that Europe perhaps would be the first to adapt to an 'internationalisation of the TV formats', whenever a REAL need surfaced for it.  

But that is my feeling. May be one reason for the lack of interest is that the real advantages of the HDTV are still not crystal clear in the PAL land.

I also have a feeling that given the high costs involved for the worldwide shift from standard to HD video, the new format may remain confined to use exclusively by the broadcasters and big businesses, despite some companies' interest to make HD cameras at consumer rates. Something like betacam...may be.

oops...perhaps I have started making dangerous leaps into
guess work on this issue.
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

Barry, UK is gearing for HD, if you read some of the BBC's R&D web pages they are conducting HD tests, and the DVB standard is being upgraded to DVB2 wich is desinged with all flavours of HD in mind (it will even allow WMV9 ).

And also Europe not so long ago started broadcasting the first Europian HD channel called "Euro1080" (beacuse it transmits 1080i).
And talking in some UK forums there are quite a lot of people watching it, just recently the Athens games!

So HD in the UK and Europe is happiing albiet in the background, seesh we already gots our 3G video network up and running (all my friends and family have one).
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

Just wanted to add, it seems that Sony WILL be releasing a PAL FX1 version, i.e 1080i 50i that will be wicked, apparently some gut tested it already (in Holland) go over to www.sonyhdvinfo.com to find out.

P.S. he says it wiped Canon XL2 and DVX even in SD mode!

P.S II he also says that the BBC is interested in this Cam (PAL version) heck they have 100's of PD150's this would be a logical move.
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

This camera would render my expensive portable NTSC field monitor useless, won't it? How much is the cheapest HD field monitor?
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

DVX plus anamorphic adapter is 4300 bucks. This new camera is very competatively priced...
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

It's been said here that 24 progressive CCDs produce a superior filmlike image over converting in post. I have been following the movement to HDV for a while and have read of 'up-rezing' algorithyms that can/will soon convert SD to HD. If we want the best of both worlds, would it not be smart to invest in the DVX100A for 'the look' and use the software conversion to HD?

Further, an article I read recently dealing with the limits of human perception indicate that the difference between standard resolution and high def may be virtually inperceptable in the space of an average American living room. I submit that only with projected video in a relatively large venue would the higher resolutions be noticeably beneficial. And if you hold the possibility of going to film, there is already a process that separates the primary colors of DV, LASER scans the images to film stock and recombines it all into a 'marvalous' hi-res image.


So, just what is the 'best' hardware/software to go with for the near to mid term future of *affordable* [enhanced res] videography? Do we really need the whiz-bang of the HDV hardware? Seems like an enhanced image from the Pany would compete just fine.


My hypothetical 2 cents,


LHB
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

Having seen my own DVX footage blown up to 35, and having seen high-def CineAlta 1080/24 footage blown up to 35, it is fair to say that the HD footage beat the DVX footage like a rented mule. It's not even close. Not in the same ballpark, not in the same league, not even playing the same sport. HD on the big screen, vs. DVX on the big screen, is about as different as DVX footage is from VHS.

Up-rezzing the DVX as compared to using the JVC HD1, well, there you have an argument, because in my opinion the up-rezzed DVX footage is probably around 80% of the resolution of the JVC, but the other image attributes (specifically motion, latitude, color rendition, gamma, etc) are SO SUPERIOR to the JVC that yes, I think an up-rezzed DVX is a very viable alternative to the JVC 1-chip HD1.

It remains to be seen how well the Sony performs, but given the difference between "Once Upon A Time In Mexico" and any DV-originated footage blown up, it's safe to say that the Sony *could* perform much better on a blowup.

Short of a theatrical presentation, or showing on a home high-def set, the advantages of HDV are much more nebulous. On the DVD I'm working on now I took the HD1 clips and down-rezzed them and put them side-by-side with DVX footage, and the HD1 clips are noticeably inferior: the DVX with some edge enhancement would slap the HD1 around like Moe slaps Shemp and Curly around.

HDV for film blowup? Maybe much superior, remains to be seen. HDV for HDTV display? Could be much superior, remains to be seen, but I'd be inclined to think that it would be noticeably better. HDV for standard-def release (DVD, home video, etc)? I don't think you're likely to see much if any improvement by going to HDV. The Sony may have knock-your-socks-off gorgeous image quality which would change that opinion, but based on extensive work with the HD1/DVX shooting the same stuff side-by-side, I think there's likely to be little to no improvement, and the DVX will be a strong contender as long as standard DVD's remain a viable distribution medium.
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=nws;num=1094660569;start=0#8 date=09/09/04 at 22:06:26]There will unquestionably not be 24P on the Pro model.  Sony has made it very clear that they consider this camera (and its pro variant) to be all about resolution, and they basically said "if you want 24P, this is not the camera for you."[/quote]
From everything I've read, Sony has never said anything like this. On the contrary, comments by its representatives indicate that Sony has not categorically refused to include 24p in its HDV offerings. According to Robin Liss' April 18 CamcorderInfo.com article (see here), "[When] CamcorderInfo.com talked to Alex Shapiro [Vice President of Marketing for Sony Broadcast] about why Sony has not produced a 24 frames progressive scan prosumer product, he emphasized how the HDV camcorder on display is not final, and that Sony is still looking for user input in it's feature set and design. That includes whether or not to include 24 progressive scan filming. Shapiro stated 'It's under study. The purpose of the exhibit that we have hear at NAB is designed to encourage end user comment. Basically our engineers from Japan are looking to gauge what the users interests are and if the end users express interest in 24P, I'm sure that the engineers will strongly consider that.'" In a September 7 article (see here), Liss states, "As [Sony spokeswoman Rosemary] Flynn put it bluntly, users now have a clear choice between HDV and 24P. At the same time, Sony has thrown much support behind 24P, and Sony officials stress that the lack of a 24P option in the HDR-FX1 is not symbolic of the company's greater direction." Although this might be interpreted as meaning that Sony will offer 24p in its high-end HD products but not in its HDV models, as it already offers high-end 24p and most likely doesn't intend to stop that, the "greater direction" seems to refer to other areas, most probably HDV. Sony knows that the HDV spec doesn't preclude 24p, and in fact JVC announced at NAB a higher-priced 3-CCD HDV model that will purportedly include 24p. If that JVC model is released, Sony won't be able to stay out of the fray.

My guess is that the pro version will be along the lines of the DSR250: shoulder-mount, large cassettes, XLR audio, and a real viewfinder.
Click to expand...
Although this is possible, the $7,000 "pro" version most likely will have the same form factor (just as the VX2000 and PD150 share a form factor) -- otherwise, it's not a version of the camera but a totally different model. One wonders, though, how Sony could justify the $3,300 premium. XLR jacks alone couldn't do it, but higher-resolution (ie, 1.5-megapixel) CCDs, 24p, and XLR audio might.
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

[quote author=Tzedekh link=board=nws;num=1094660569;start=15#16 date=09/11/04 at 14:51:12]
Liss states, "As [Sony spokeswoman Rosemary] Flynn put it bluntly, users now have a clear choice between HDV and 24P. [/quote]
That's exactly what I meant. Sony says if you want HDV, you can buy this. If you want 24P, buy something else. They have drawn a clear distinction. While some future camera may offer 24P (and Sony does offer it on its $35,000 IMX cameras and $100,000 CineAlta) the direction is clearly stated: you can have our HDV, OR you can have 24P, but not both. Some other camera, some day in the future, may offer it, but seeing as they haven't offered any 24P standard-def cameras yet, and 24P is *not* part of the HDV standard, I really don't expect them to offer 24P on the "pro" HDV model. In fact, I'd bet a hundred bucks on it.

(of course, I also bet a hundred bucks that Canon would *never* release a standard-def XL2, they'd make it HDV... so what do I know?) ;)

If that JVC model is released, Sony won't be able to stay out of the fray.
Click to expand...
While your statement seems reasonable, history would dictate that Sony certainly can stay out of the fray -- to their detriment, but they remain stubborn. Look at the PD170: no 24P. Look at the HDV cam: no 24P. Both were decried as major oversights (as in, "Sony blew it") and yet Sony persists.

the $7,000 "pro" version most likely will have the same form factor (just as the VX2000 and PD150 share a form factor) -- otherwise, it's not a version of the camera but a totally different model.
Click to expand...
Based on their history (maxing the shoulder-mount VX9000/DSR200 from the VX1000, and the shoulder-mount DSR250 from the PD150) I'd say that based on the price differential alone, making a shoulder-mount pro version is the only course of action they would take. They are not going to engineer new CCD's for the different model, they are going to milk the existing cow until they recover some of the R&D expense.

Sony marketed the VX2000 guts in three different body styles: the VX2000 at $2400, the PD150 (with DVCAM & XLR's) at $3300, and the shoulder-mount, CRT-viewfinder DSR250 at $6500. They all share the same guts, the same lens, the same everything, just basically a different form factor, and a better CRT viewfinder on the big pro model. For the price difference that's been quoted, I fully expect them to do the same thing: HDR-FX1 for $3700, DSR-FX1 for $7000 with real viewfinder, shoulder-mount and large cassette capability.

But hey, it's all speculation... heck, the FX1 hasn't even hit the shores yet and we're already disagreeing over what the not-even-announced model will be! ;D
 
Re: SONY HDR-FX1 REVIEW

holy crap !  ???   her we go with a DVX/XL2/FX1 shootout...

...and maybe a HDVX100A soon ? why not... :D

i wonder how is the new Sony's dynamic range with those densely packed CCDs...

is ther some grabs we can see ?
...and when will it be in stores ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top