Sony FX30: an aps-c FX3
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ahalpert
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Yeah I just saw this and thought it looked great. It's funny, but I wasn't paying attention to the xh2s until the xh2 came out. But I think it would be preferable for me than the xh2. But I'm not jumping ship from sony.
Somehow i doubt that the fx30 will match the look of the xh2s. If you believe the cartel theory, then one of the aspects that Fuji gets to prioritize is color
But I don't think that fuji is matching sony for autofocus from what I've seen, despite what people say. Most of the autofocus tests you see online are really wimpy anyway. They don't stress test the system, which is ultimately where I need it to perform (and the only reason I fjnd AF useful over MF)
The cartel has to march along with technology and pretty much everyone expected for the sensors, the processors, codecs and the recording media to keep improving to the point where an average person watching on an average monitor won't be able to tell a $2,000 camera footage from a $100,000 camera footage.
The cartel still has irons in the fire, insofar as stills go. Samsung has a 200 MPX sensor and it's seeking to get to 500. At some point, the cartel will jump over 100 in sizes beside the medium. But video seems to be getting to its limits and it's bad news first and foremost for the independents such as Red and BMD The former will be squeezed out by the next generation of Canon and Sony affordable pro cameras in the C300/FX-9 class, the latter will be demolished by the likes of FX-30, X H-2, Z8, etc.
Then it'll be a cartel member's turn to quit. My pick right now is Panasonic because the company really doesn't need the trouble. It can stay or it can go but it finds itself in the same situation as Samsung -- the photo-video market is an insignificant toy for the corporate. It fired its shot with GH-6, apparently with little success, and now it can move on and out.
And, if the market does stabilize at around five million units annually, Canon, Sony and Nikon can stay in it a while longer. But I think it'll shrink further, much further.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
What's that issue? I haven't heard of it
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Well, I don't think that Sony is improving its IBIS over time. So, it still stings for that reason alone, and probably for other reasons as well
Red isn't a part of the cartel. It's an American company. Its existence is, by and large, due to the cartel leaving large gaps in its high end lineup with only a single company (Sony, now that Panasonic is de facto out) competing in the high budget production niche.
Likewise, ARRI is not a part of the cartel either. They're above the market. They charge whatever they want to charge because they can't make their cameras quickly enough. The demand is greater than their manufacturing capacity.
PS. I just looked it up - the Raptor sensor is designed - as a concept - similarly to the LF's and Alexa 65, i.e., it's two sensors that are stitched together and, apparently, under certain conditions, the vertical "stitching" line is visible. I don't know of any other cameras using that technology, although it doesn't mean it's never been tried before.
Yes, i just meant that in a figurative way. By almost the definition of this cartel theory a foreign company could not possibly be in the cartel.
I meant if you are looking for clues you will find them.
There is obvious moderating of technology, but i don’t feel it is all as well orchestrated as is often talked about.
Red hit the scene exactly at the same time everyone else did, and they kind if came out of no where and blind sided everyone.For as crap as they were, their first camera sells used for more than the original Varicam.
I think we assume that these camera companies are more capable than they are.
True, I think DLD is doing good work exposing the cartel practices. I just think it was more of an issue before now. Digital was such a new tech that seeing it slowed down or held back was aggravating. But we also have to realize that some of it was just how manufacturing works out. It never happens as fast as we might hope. We’ll never know how much money they could have lost on overclocked dslr’s shooting with our dream specs of the day. i assume not so much and that they held things back to sell more cameras, but i also just believe some of it was the nature of manufacturing and warranty concerns. I mean we can shake our fists at the R5, but the RED one MX needed ice packs occasionally. haha.
Anyways, i’m not anti this cartel theory, and i support DLD, really. I may differ on the nuances is all. I think making a good camera is hard and that if the cartel is holding on to 8bit for so long that they didn’t have much else to offer.
As far as basic cameras go, we are getting really close to a sweet spot for base image quality. That XH2S video is rather amazing, and proof that we are nearly at that point where a sub $3K camera is competing with motion picture 35mm film.
We may get to that point where AF and IBIS are so good we’ll start basing our purchses more on those things, but it is fairly recent that lower cost cameras have looked this good. So people are still buying Komodo’s despite the less advance stab and af. I’m still looking forward to better dynamic range and GS, but 12+ and under 20ms RS is still pretty great.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Minor rumor update at sonyalpharumors. Confirms that the fx30 has 4k120 and the blogger says he saw it and it's physical indistinguishable from the fx3.
I wonder if it could do full readout 480fps 4K or HD from a cropped window... but they probably won't program that even if it's possible
https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/i-saw-the-fx30-and-it-really-looks-exactly-like-the-fx3/
I wonder if it could do full readout 480fps 4K or HD from a cropped window... but they probably won't program that even if it's possible
https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/i-saw-the-fx30-and-it-really-looks-exactly-like-the-fx3/
ahalpert
Major Contributor
You heard about the latest R5 firmware that lets you record 8K until the camera actually overheats, which is a while, right? I don't think that I or anyone else would have been unhappy if that's the way it had been to start with
Obviously, different people buy cameras for different reasons. I used to be concerned with getting the best image in my price range. But when I bought the a7siii and switched to Sony, I was just determined to get good AF since my competitors had it. I wasn't willing to sacrifice full readout or 10-bit or a fast-enough rolling shutter. But I wouldn't say that Sony has my favorite imagery, although it's definitely not bad and you can work with it
From an idieological standpoint i’ve always like the Zeiss/Sony approach to imaging as being neutral and true, as opposed to the mojo, however, i know what you mean. there is something to those film stocks and digital cameras that shoot for a little more aesthetic qualities. Even Zeiss and Sony have now caved to the market demand for that, with the Supremes (and Radience)and Venice color science. I wonder if Panasonic’s Varicam 35 had a Venice style mojo color profile would it have been more successful? For as much a reputation Panny mojo used to have, it was odd to see them pushed towards neutral and Sony land on mojo.
It will be interesting to see where the iq lands with the FX30. I was more excited about the FX30 till seeing the XH2S from fuji.
I’d have bought the FX3 had they introduce Fw2.0 earlier, and had a better screen. For losing the EVF, the screen felt a little below what i’d prefer at the price point. i’d take a better screen and a slightly lower price over an XLR audio kit.
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ahalpert
Major Contributor
I hardly ever use my fx3 screen on account of external monitors. I will say, though, that the a7siii screen (and the fx3 as well I think, though I didn't test it as thoroughly) has INACCURATE color representation of the recording. Whereas the a7siii EVF is spot on. I don't judge color by the screen on either camera, but I'm fully confident in assessing color by the a7siii evf. It's a nice usefulness of that evf, but only because the screen is wrong.
I feel like the timecode input and cine ei mode are appeals of the fx3 vs regular mirrorless cameras. And maybe the top mounting points. (Although i think newsshooter said the timecode drifts more than average, a frame per hour or something)
Since the fx30 was announced, ive also gotten in discussions that reminded me that the a7siii/fx3 is actually a Quad Bayer sensor that doesn't make any special use of the extra photosites. But having 4x the photosites Doubles the read noise. So, the argument is that those cameras could have better DR and noise if they had sprung for a better sensor design. So, maybe the fx30 will achieve parity in sensor performance. Or maybe it will also just use a repurposed sensor they had lying around
I judge a lot of exposure and color off the monitor if i am just messing around. generally once a camera becomes second nature, you get used to how things work out. But certainly for work i get far more OCD about using exposure tools.
I love the EVF on the A7S3. one of the best advancements since the loss of OVF’s.
And sad about the FX3 lcd, it just makes the camera feel clunky. i can’t explain it really, but the LCD is sort of the window to the image and when it is cheap, the whole experience is cheapened. a lot of what makes the FX3 appealing as an A cam is how it can go anywhere, but if things look uninspired on the screen it can dampen the whole experience.
Def something to test if using for doco work and a separate audio team. 1frame is somewhat imperceptable to most people, but if you don’t resync after 6hrs and the drift is 7frames, we’re in big trouble.
good point about the Quad Bayer. What is it exactly? i’ve not paid attention to it since the early days of the As73
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ahalpert
Major Contributor
I don't judge exposure off the evf (or monitor), just hues and white balance
Yeah, it's nice to have a pretty monitor on camera, but ultimately i don't care. Make your composition and enjoy the shot later imo
Sure, that is why it is called work!
I was talking purely from a shooting for enjoyment perspective. in which case, is like a car, when you commute is different than driving for pleasure. It is about the experience.
Shooting photography and video as a hobby or for enjoyment is an aesthetic pleasure. The camera should be an experience too
most brands have forgotten that in an attempt to look high tech. even Leica.
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