FS7: Sony FS7 vs. Canon C500

starcentral said:
I think this is why Sony decided to launch S-Log3 and the S.gamut3's and thankfully they did.
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YES! Coming from the FS700 S-Log 2, S.gamut3 and S-Log 3 is just so good. I'm loving the look and color reproduction. It just looks more sophisticated. Not sure how else to put it.
 
I think the C500 at 4K has a different image than C300 at 1080p. Be interesting to compare what 4K ProRes on C500 vs. 4K ProRes on FS7 looks like. That would mostly be what I use.
 
Hey Chris,

This might help you. It is the F55, but supposedly the FS7 is pretty close so you're probably in the ball park. This is a massive and pretty well done camera test. IMHO, the C500 is in a league below the Sony F55 in terms of color dynamic range and just overall image aesthetics. I was kind of surprised by how much better I liked Sony than the Canon's in this test. I even like the skin tones equally, if not a bit more on the F55.

http://wolfcrow.com/blog/huge-4k-ca...vs-scarlet-vs-canon-c500-vs-1dc-vs-jvc-hmq10/
 
Again, given the massive development of slog gamma combined with color space from December 2013 to mid 2014 I would be extremely wary of any footage or tests made available online. Things are better yesterday than they were a week ago type of thing.

For one there were beta and final release versions of the Sony issue 3D Look Profiles, there were slog2 and slog3 sets, as well each are designed for a specific color space which not everyone is aware of.

That footage uploaded (love it or not) was uploaded in October 2013 at which point slog3 and s.gamtut3.cine and s.gamut3 were not available yet.

Not to say the people testing don't know what they are doing but you do have to ask if there's more than meets the eye.
 
What makes you want to believe that those doing this test have any clue in how to use any one of these cameras, much less all of them and then leave the comparison as to which is better up to you? Are you really going to make any kind of career decision about which camera can do what up to somebody else?
 
lightstrum said:
What makes you want to believe that those doing this test have any clue in how to use any one of these cameras, much less all of them and then leave the comparison as to which is better up to you? Are you really going to make any kind of career decision about which camera can do what up to somebody else?
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Well, go out and do your own tests then or rent. For the rest of us who don't have access to all those cameras, we have to rely to an extend on tests other people do. I don't know of one person who shops for a camera who does not look at comparison tests or footage on-line. Maybe they did miss something with the Canons. Or maybe the Sony F's aren't as piss poor and video as many make them out to be.

Personally, I'm appreciative that they spent a huge amount of time and effort to do the tests and contributed something to the camera community. Way more than most (including myself) would do.
 
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So besides the image, I want to take a look at total cost of owning both cameras. What it would cost for media, batteries, accessories, etc… I think both cameras produce a stellar image, now I am getting down to details I often look past when looking at cameras.

Here are the settings I would most likely use in my camera. This is a full layout of the comparison of costs at the date of this post. Most of my work is in 24fps, so I used that as my guide below.

SONY
Sony FS7 - $7999
Sony E to EF Metabones - Free Promo
Sony FS7 Extension Unit - $1999
$10,000

7Q+ with 2x 256 GB HDs - $2295
FS RAW Option - $799
4K RAW - 31 minutes
4K to 4K ProRes - Guessing 60-90 mins, IDK?
4K2HD - 388 minutes
Total - $13,094
—————
Sony FS7 - $7999
Sony E to EF Metabones - Free Promo
$7999

Internally FS7 with 2x 128 GB cards - $1598
UHD 240Mbps XAVC - 120 mins
1080p 89Mbps - 300 mins
Total - $9597


So in comparison, the cost of the 7Q+RAW option is the big difference. I don’t really see a need for 4K Raw in my work right now, so the difference in cost is huge! I enjoy using the XAVC codec in post, so I wouldn’t mind using that.


CANON
Canon C500 - approx. $9500
7Q+ with 2x 256 GB HDs - $2295
Canon C500 RAW - $1495


4K RAW - 31 minutes
4K to 4K ProRes - Guessing 60-90 mins, Idk again
4K2HD - ~338 minutes?
Total - $13,290


So basically, both cameras are the same price when you add in the 7Q. Both basically record the same amount of time on both setups using the 7Q. What is really interesting, is internally the FS7 is priced way better than any other option really at the moment. Internally, it is quite nice and probably just enough to cover 95% of all of my productions, which is really nice IMO.

Regarding batteries and weight, let’s take a look at just some rough numbers I have found online…

FS7 Bare
4.4 Body Only
~5-7 lbs for Body + Monitor + BP-U60 Battery + Memory Card
2x Sony BP-U60 (5600mAH) - $269 x 2 = $538


C500 Bare without 7Q
6 lbs for most applications
2x Canon BP-955 Battery (5200mAh) -$150 = $300


So weight and battery wise, they are very similar. I don’t know how long each camera lasts but based on these numbers, 2 batteries should cover most of my typical shooting days. The weight is basically the same too. This is not including the 7Q+ which would add more weight and cost of batteries. If I considered the 7Q, I would consider investing into some sort of alternative power method that can power the camera and the 7Q at the same time to save costs and hassles.

Overall, I am leaning more towards the FS7 at the moment. Internally, the FS7 is way stronger and I like that concept for simpler shoots where I don’t need to lug around a bunch of s*%t all the time. To get similar quality on the C500, we are talking about added weight, power, the use of a rig, and higher costs overall.

Although the C500 has seen a major price cut, I don’t think it is worth it. Since I am controlling more of my post, I think the FS7 would be great because I can shoot neutrally and control the look later.

Sorry this was so long but I wanted to lay it out for everyone to see. If I messed up or missed something, please comment!


Thanks,
Chris
 
Good to know, I am not considering it anyways. The price of the FS7 is pretty hard to beat when you lay it all out.
 
Ok to end the debate on used prices of C500s. Do a search on REDUSER and here. Last month a few have been going for $9500-10500. They are used though, lower hours priced usually higher. I didn't pull this out of nowhere guys. lol
 
C500 & FS7 comparison info

C500 & FS7 comparison info

For the C500, you will need a should rig like the Zacuto C-Shooter $949 and the Canon Grip for $349 to recreate the Sony FS7 out of the box setup for shoulder shooting. Sony has the VCT-FS7 shoulder rig that adds a fancier pad & rails for $990.

Compact Flash memory for the C500 shouldn't ever be a problem in any major city compared to finding Sony G-Series XQD cards that run $799.95 each for 128GB.

The FS7 will record 4K internal with the G-Series and S-Series cards (discontinued) without the extension unit. See graphic below.

The Sony XDCA-FS7 Extension Unit allows you output 12 bit RAW to the 7Q+ and will in the future enable ProRes 422 internal recording to the G-Series cards.

Seems like everyone and their mom already has a collection of Canon lenses. We don't see any shooters that already own Sony lenses.

With that said, FS7 orders lately have been trending to the FS7 Kits with the Servo 28-135mm f4 Lens for $10499


xqd_recording_times.png
 
if anyone is interested in C500.... keep in mind its HDMI and SDI - are HD 8 bit 50i. In order to get more then 8bit u have to use its 3G SDI.....
 
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