FS5: Sony FS5 gradeability

naavt

Well-known member
Hi all,

Last week I've attended an Alister Chapman workshop where he present his view on the Sony FS5 and FS7 cameras.

I've questioned him on the 4K XAVC-L 8bit 4:2:0 FS5 gradeability, since I find it to be the camera's true Achilles heel and the only thing that keeps me from buying one for my next documentary project.

He told me that I'll be hard pushed to see real world differences between grading that 8bit files when comparing them to 10bit ones from the FS7 (a camera that I know relatively well).

He stands for that assumption since he says that the XAVC codec, no matter I or L, is deciphered on a frame basis, contrary to other H.264 codecs that assume a single reading from the first frame and applies that reading to all other frames within the same shot.

This is all very cleaver and beautiful on paper, but I wonder if it really works in the real world. I find it difficult for a 8bit 4:2:0 file to compare to a 10bit 4:2:2 one. There's a thing called physics and no way to go around it's basic principles.

But then again, Alister told me that there's no true 4:2:2 in any of these cameras, since the Bayer pattern on their sensors are not arranged in a true 4:2:2 configuration but in a 4:1:1 one.

I'm curious to hear what do you FS5 and FS7 owners have to say about all this.
 
Naavt, I'm not trying to be sarcastic at all when I ask...what did you eyes tell you when you viewed the footage on a 4K monitor? Also, I'd think a documentary (I'm working on one now) shouldn't need heavy grading and green-screen work (that's just my supposition...I have no idea what kind of a doc you're planning).

Lastly, for a doc, can you get a profile built so that you can use ungraded footage?

Just practical questions about theoretical issues. Good luck. I've shot 4K footage from an A7RII (8-bit 4:2:0) and it holds up well to mild manipulation (contrast, saturation, etc) and even Slog-2 does well with highlight recovery. I worry a lot more about blown highlights than malleability of the codec for grading.
 
In anything outside the FS5's rather narrow Goldilocks zone, the difference in image quality between the FS5 and FS7 is night and day as far as I'm concerned.

Alistair sometimes makes very odd assertions on a variety of Sony-related subjects. He was also blaming user error for the FS5 macro blocking error that Sony fixed with firmware.
 
Naavt, I'm not trying to be sarcastic at all when I ask...what did you eyes tell you when you viewed the footage on a 4K monitor? Also, I'd think a documentary (I'm working on one now) shouldn't need heavy grading and green-screen work (that's just my supposition...I have no idea what kind of a doc you're planning).

Curiously he ended to show up an edit almost entirely shot in the 1080p 10bit 4:2:2 slowMo burst mode. The footage was really beautiful but far from what I was really interested to see, that was the 4K codec at work.


In anything outside the FS5's rather narrow Goldilocks zone, the difference in image quality between the FS5 and FS7 is night and day as far as I'm concerned.

Alistair sometimes makes very odd assertions on a variety of Sony-related subjects. He was also blaming user error for the FS5 macro blocking error that Sony fixed with firmware.

Good to know. Thank you.


Chadfish, thank you for the video. It was really helpful and the guy is right. Test it to make sure it works. Sony already demonstrate their availability to lend me a camera to do my own tests.
 
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