Sony FS100 - frame rate and shutter speed tests

Postmaster

Postmaster

Dark Side of the Camera
Okay, after having some issues with stutter/jitter while panning, I did some tests with the FS100 to see what I can get out of it.

This is actually 3 tests.

1. 25i with 1/25, 1/50 and 1/100 shutter speed
2. 50i with 1/25, 1/50 and 1/100 shutter speed
3. 50p with 1/25, 1/50 and 1/100 shutter speed

The panning speed was reasonable and about what I would do in a real world scenario, but I added a faster pan at the end – just for the sake of it.

It drives me nuts.
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I´m used to silky smooth 25fps (50i) pans with my trusty old HVX. But whatever I do, I´m not able to achieve the same smooth motion rendering with the FS100. It´s always judder/studder – especial at high contrast areas.

Looks like folks with the non European FS100 @ 24p-1/48 don´t have that problem though
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Frank





 
Hmmm, 25p and Shutter 50 looks awful! I went trough it frame for frame. Looks normal, but in motion it hurts my eyes.
What is going on here??

Even 50p looks weird.
 
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I recorded uncompressed (RGB out) to my Blackmagic Decklink. 50i 1/50 shutter. At the same time I recorded to the card.
Looks like it is halfway smooth that way - at least on my preview monitor, coming from the timeline.
So for the moment 50i 1/50 it is.

By the way, I expected way more difference between those two.
It takes some color correction and a 200% magnification until you start seeing the artifacts in the AVCHD version.
Quite impressing

Here is a screenshot and a 200% crop.

Correct1.jpg

Left is uncompressed, right side is AVCHD.

Correct2.jpg

The Video should be available in 30 minutes

Frank

 
is this issue consistant with all euro models? could you have a defective one? it looks more like a codec thing than normal judder to me. or maybe the clock is screwed up in your camera causing it not to shoot the frames uniformly. maybe some are late, some are early.
 
As far as I can see, it´s a problem only in high contrast areas. If you look at the tilt of the tree it´s awful.
When it gets darker, you don´t see the judder anymore. So it may be ether a codec problem or a rather a processing problem.

I gonna try to turn the detail setting all the way down and see what I get.

Can someone with an US model please make a test at24p 1/48 with high contrast subjects?

Thanks, Frank
 
I just watched Alistair Chapmans F3/FS100 comparisons and when he tilts the camera down on the FS100 (filming his wife making a bracelet) the picture judders.
 
Frank, did you contact Sony ?

I had a Sony NX-5 which produced more judder @ 25p than my GH2 @ 23,98 but it did not look like the FS100.

Your 1/25th shutter shots are the most weird. They don´t have the usual motion blur.
 
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I´m still digging into the problem - on my class 1 preview monitor it looks way smoother, when I play it from the timeline.
It becomes only horrible juddery when converted to H.264.

A bit lost in the moment, but working on it.

Frank
 
What is really strange to me is the SAME exact observations were made by some users with the AF100 at 25P as well. I couldn't see it on mine, but I saw what they were talking about in their videos. Additionally, they were seeing the same thing that the smoothness was affected by where it was played back as well, which really baffles me.

I'd play it back in camera hooked up to something through the HDMI and see how it looks.
 
Disclaimer: sorry if I am barking up the wrong tree AND lecturing everyone's grandparents on the benefits of vacuum applied to eggs...

Apology to Rick: you got there before I hit send...

Are we driving our monitors at 50Hz or 60Hz? Driving a 50Hz monitor with 50Hz material when going through a 60Hz monitor profile at the DVI channel will make things look bad.

If one were to take 'juddery' footage and, say, do something radical like... make a DVD of it (yes, interlace it) and shove it up your TV at home? Do things get better?

My MacBook Pro screen is driven at 60Hz, and has an in-build 'cadence' when playing back 50Hz material - I just put up with it because I know its characteristics. But I'll connect up to my 32" monitor at 50Hz for more in-depth checking, and the switch isn't necessarily automatic.

M'kay, here's a check: have you plugged the camera into a 'trusted' monitor's HDMI input and watched it there? Done the same with some known and trusted EX1R (or similar) footage? I'll be doing exactly that once I've got these snarking edits put to bed... I'm looking at my FS100 now, the sun is shining outside, and I have to get these snarking edits out...
 
That's a good point Matt and one that I've really not heard anyone else mention. I don't have ANY 50Hz experience living in the states, but playing back on a screen that is 60Hz would in my mind create some issues. Maybe since I have NO 50Hz screens, I've never not noticed footage looking any different.
 
Matt, that´s not the issue.
Of course 25p and 24p look more juddery on a 60 hz display (as europeans and americans use normally as computer screens) because it both doesn´t fit (24p needs a pulldown like on an NTSC TV and 25p must also be conformed to 60 hz somehow). But on Frank´s clips it´s worse than usual. 25p from my Z7 or 23,98 from my GH2 don´t look like that on my PC monitor.
 
I don´t know, 25p or 50i from my HVX look great on the same monitor.

I also watch DVDs and BluRays (24p and 50i/p) on it, never seen something like that before.

Frank
 
I just took this file http://vimeo.com/groups/fs100/videos/25073459 and braought it to tmpeg, made a 25p DVD File and burned it on DVD. On my TV Screen (Panasonic LCD) it looks a million times better than on my PC screen. Movement in 1/25th shutter mode looks almost like 50i but still it´s not perfect. It´s just a little more judder than usual.

Frank, could you do the same? Make a DVD of your MTS Files and watch it on a regular TV.
 
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