Sony FS 700, Atomos Samurai or Ninja 2?

G

Gene Sung

Veteran
Hello,

I am trying to spec out a potential FS700 package since that looks like the camera I am going to buy. I have 2 questions

Question 1) For the FS700, do you guys recommend a Atomos Samurai or the new Ninja 2? If the Ninja 2 would work, it would be nice to save $500.

Here's a link to the new Ninja 2 with specs

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/858661-REG/ATOMOS_ATOMNJA002_Ninja_2.html

I believe I read that the FS700 is HD-SDI. Is that correct?

Question 2) What is the difference between HD-SDI verses the traditional HDMI connector?

Thanks for any guidance
 
I've been using a nanoFlash recorder with my FS100 for almost a year, connected by HDMI. if you take some care in how you configure it, you can reduce strain on the connection (which is obviously weaker than a BNC connector.) the FS700 will support progressive output on the HDMI, so the two outputs should be identical. it is worth noting that TC over HDMI isn't supported on all recorders, so if that's something you need, go HDSDI. on the other hand, the 700 (like the 100) doesn't have TC in, so it might not matter to you either way.
 
Thanks for the responses guys

@ Felix, why is HDMI not really useable? From what I understand, the current Sony FS100 only has HDMI out correct?

Also, with the nanonFlash, you cannot record in 4:2:2 Pro-Res correct? For 4:2:2, you need something like a Samurai or Ninja?
 
gene_can_sing said:
Also, with the nanonFlash, you cannot record in 4:2:2 Pro-Res correct? For 4:2:2, you need something like a Samurai or Ninja?
Click to expand...

not ProRes. the nano records in .MOV, .MXF, or .MPG in a number of different bitrates (up to 280Mbps, i Frame) in a flavor of XDCAM, 4:2:2 8 bit. excellent recorder.
 
gene_can_sing said:
Question 1) For the FS700, do you guys recommend a Atomos Samurai or the new Ninja 2? If the Ninja 2 would work, it would be nice to save $500.
Click to expand...
I'm a little torn on this recommendation, because 1) I think the FS700 would benefit greatly from an external recorder, because its imager is delivering truly enough image detail and color detail that the external should make a noticeable improvement over the internal. But, do you get an external recorder now, or do you wait to see how 4K is going to be handled? Because it sure would be nice to buy just one recorder, wouldn't it?

As for Ninja vs. Samurai, I wouldn't think twice about it - go Samurai if the camera you're using has an SDI port, which the FS700 does.

I believe I read that the FS700 is HD-SDI. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
Well, yes, technically; it's actually 3G-SDI, which is the next generation of SDI, but 3G-SDI is fully backwards compatible with HD-SDI (and SD-SDI) so an HD-SDI recorder will certainly work, for HD recordings. You'd need a raw-enabled 3G-SDI recorder for the full 4K image that will someday be unlocked in the FS700.

Question 2) What is the difference between HD-SDI verses the traditional HDMI connector?
Click to expand...
HDMI is a consumer connector that was originally designed to connect a blu-ray player or game system to a television. It was never envisioned to be used in the sometimes rough 'n' tumble world of professional video production. HD-SDI was, and is, designed specifically for pro video applications. Every pro monitor, pro recorder, pro deck, and pro camcorder is going to have HD-SDI; HDMI may show up on some of those products or it may not. It's nice when your product has both, so you could plug your camera directly into your HDTV, for example, but when you're working with professional equipment, HD-SDI is the standard. It's a locking connector, vs. HDMI which isn't. It supports timecode, which (by design) HDMI doesn't -- although Sony came up with an implementation of timecode-over-HDMI on the FS100, which may or may not work with your external recorder or device, it depends, because it is inherently nonstandard.

HDMI and HD-SDI will transmit identical video signals. The differences are in what they connect to, whether it supports 8 channels of audio and SMPTE timecode, and the connector itself -- the SDI connector is a rugged locking connector on a rugged cable, the HDMI connector is a simple slip fitting of a consumer connector.

HDMI can be okay for monitoring, but I think it's a terrible idea for recording. If the cable pops out of your monitor, that's an inconvenience; if it pops out of your recorder, that's a disaster. Which is why I say, if you have the choice, by all means go SDI.
 
Wow, the NanoFlash sounds really cool, especially if it does 4:2:2. Can you post a link to which model will work with the FS700?

What Barry said makes a lot of sense in waiting to see what the 4K Recorder does / cost, since there no use in having 2 recorders
 
gene_can_sing said:
Wow, the NanoFlash sounds really cool, especially if it does 4:2:2. Can you post a link to which model will work with the FS700?

What Barry said makes a lot of sense in waiting to see what the 4K Recorder does / cost, since there no use in having 2 recorders
Click to expand...
The NanoFlash is an HDMI/HD-SDI recorder that can record 50mbps to 280mbps of MPEG2, and will definitely work with the FS700. It costs about $1895 and doesn't have a display screen, so it's a little different from the Ninja/Samurai. But basically any of those recorders will work with the FS700 and will deliver better imagery than the native codec.

My point (again) is -- man, what if there's a ... I don't know, an Atomos Katana that comes out three months from now, which is basically a Samurai with raw capability; wouldn't you wish you'd went for that one? But then again, with ebay, it's not like you'd lose that much. I just think that ... well, isn't part of the whole point of the FS700 to get the 4K? And we know that will require an external recorder, and we know that neither the Nano, the Samurai, the Ninja, or the PIX will work with 4K footage, so -- why be in a rush to get any of those recorders? How quickly will you really NEED one? Don't buy until you NEED it, and heck, when you need it, get the best one available and don't look back...
 
gotta say, I completely agree with Barry on this one. the 700 is a great camera that's going to become even better with the 4K raw capability. that's gonna be where the camera really shines (and will be truly distinctive in the market.)
but I DO love my nanoFlash and it IS a great recorder ;)
 
I have use samurai, pix220/240, Nanoflash before my final decision of investing my money for only one of them. All of them are great recorders. I went with pix220 because for me it fit just perfectly. I do not own any device with hdsdi and even if I rent something I alway have a Blackmagic converter. Pix220/240 are really functional and with a lot of features for professional field work. Like I said all of the recorders I tested are great and each one of them have their unique features, you just got to find the recorder that feats your needs. There are plenty other recorders from other brands wich are good too.
 
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Thanks for the great advise Barry. I'm going to wait and see for the 4K recorder. I was thinking the Nano-Flash was the Sony one I saw on B&H's site for $600. For $600, I wouldn't mind throwing down some cash. But at $1500 to $1800, it's better wait for to see what the 4K does.

Thanks again
 
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