Sony F35 at 12bit 444
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Viddovation
Veteran
I have used it on the Sony SR-R1 SR Memory Recorder.
I am looking to purchase a Sony SR-R1 for my F35 as I think it is the best fit to acquire the highest quality recording out of this camera.
I am curious to hear what your thoughts are on this recorder as you have used it before with the F35. Also, is the cheapest way to offload the media to a computer through the $2500 SR-D1 reader?! This is the only thing putting me off on buying this recorder. It seems ridiculously expensive. Did you use this reader to transfer your material? If so does it simply connect to a USB port on the computer?
Thanks for your help Viddovation.
Igor
SJX
Veteran
The more I research the more I think 7Q is best option. Hopefully they will deliver on the 12 bit promise and soon. They have been talking for a while now.
SR-R1 sounds good at first. But it has the same limitations as all other recorders as no ramping, no variable frame rates and no trigger recording. It costs much more than any, is heaviest, the media is expensive too and it needs a VCR size card reader to read the media that costs $2k. I think this is too much money and hassle over the others for 12 bit. Then it is limited to HDCAM SR. 7Q gives you all the SR-R1 gives and also more codec options, is lighter and gives you a good monitor too. When it does 12 bit it will be obvious choice. Or if it ever does 12 bit.
SR-R1 sounds good at first. But it has the same limitations as all other recorders as no ramping, no variable frame rates and no trigger recording. It costs much more than any, is heaviest, the media is expensive too and it needs a VCR size card reader to read the media that costs $2k. I think this is too much money and hassle over the others for 12 bit. Then it is limited to HDCAM SR. 7Q gives you all the SR-R1 gives and also more codec options, is lighter and gives you a good monitor too. When it does 12 bit it will be obvious choice. Or if it ever does 12 bit.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
It is on our roadmap but we have some other things to accomplish first.
well I've have tracked down the total pieces of a codex M recorder, from what it looks like the Codex will be able to to 12bit 444 out of the F35 dock up to 50p, speed ramping, rec button. Seems the Codex delivers what the SRR3 promised. Perhaps I'm speaking too soon but BandPro had the F35 Interface plate for $750 used, this was the part I was worried wouldn't exist anymore so I am excited to have the parts I need.
So far I've bought:
Codex M Recorder : $600
2 256gb Codex Drives: $500
Codex F35 Interface Plate: $750
Still need:
Magnetic Remote
Transfer Station (One for 2k on ebay but it's huge)
I'll post results soon.
So far I've bought:
Codex M Recorder : $600
2 256gb Codex Drives: $500
Codex F35 Interface Plate: $750
Still need:
Magnetic Remote
Transfer Station (One for 2k on ebay but it's huge)
I'll post results soon.
Viddovation
Veteran
Unfortunately, the Sony SR-R1 gets consistently maligned, so people really don't know the full scoop on this recorder. First of all, let me confess two things about my Sony SR-R1 purchase: I didn't pay the ridiculous retail price - I got it off ebay with two 256GB cards for around $3750, used, and I made this purchase before the Odyssey 7Q was announced to the public. Now, I haven't used the Odyssey, but it seems to be regarded as a good piece of kit, and you get a monitor to boot. With all due respect to Mitch though, I'm not a fan of their licensing pricing structure, and I particularly would be cautious about buying any kit today based on features that are "on their roadmap." We all saw how quickly the Gemini got superceded by The O7Q, to say nothing of Sony products like the PMW-F3 or F35.
So, the SR-R1. It will record just about anything the F35 can output excluding the Select FPS and ramping. That includes true 24p (as opposed to 23.98p), 12bit RGB444, 50p 422 (and 50p 444 if you mulitplex the signals, I beleive), and virtually everything in-between. You can even use the 3d mode to record two F35 cameras at the same time to the same recorder. And mind you this - the hardware in the SR-R1 almost certainly is capable of handling the Select FPS and ramping - it does Select FPS for the Sony PMW-F3, afterall, so there's that. And maybe there's an ever so slim (infintessimal!) chance we can get that enabled somehow. Who knows.
So, first off, the SR-D1 is $1995 from B&H new. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/887148-REG/Sony_SR_D1_SRMASTER_SRMemory_Drive.html
So, not $2,500.
Second, EC Pro has had a SR-R1 listing with two cards for $5,000 on eBay for a long time now. Maybe if you call them up directly outside of eBay you could negotiate a deal including an SR-D1 that's favorable.
Third, there is a cheaper alternative to the SR-D1. It's called SR-Express, and might cost as little as $300, but more likely would run closer to $1,000 (I'm looking at ebay prices). Essentially, Sony and AJA developed a data transfer method that occurs over the SDI cable, and it's free software for AJA 3G and AJA Io XT owners. Buy either of those cards, download the software, and you're in business. And to be clear - this is a proprietary communication method over BNC cable at faster than real time, that delivers digital files. It's not the same as video ingest, and it's not generational. https://www.aja.com/en/news/top-stories/242
The downside to SRExpress is that you are using the recorder itself as part of the offload, so you can't be shooting too.
Also, the SR-R1 can easily be modified to use the F35 dock mount (cold, using the elctronics is more complicated) and it's color scheme, size, etc, makes it look like part of the camera.
Viddovation
Veteran
The 7Q is just like gemini, doesnt generate timecodewhich is a turn down for long term productions
For what it's worth, the Sony SR-R1 has a full time code module, including Preset, Regen, Freerun, Record run, LTC input, etc.
SJX
Veteran
The 7Q is just like gemini, doesnt generate timecode
Really? Surprising given it is sold as a professional piece of kit. Mitch, are there plans to fix this? This is a deal breaker.
Even the cheap Hyperdeck seems to generate it's own timecode.
Viddovation
Veteran
There's a Codex kit on ebay for $3,500 USD. No drives or dock, but has the remote, and claims to have all licenses. Seems fair.
SJX
Veteran
How often you have to offload with such small capacity media? 50p probably goes through it like butter right?
But I think being locked in HDCAM SR codec is big minus. Not every NLE can edit this and then you have to convert. Takes time and adds extra compression.
100% agree. I don't buy anything based on promises by any manufacturer. Been burned too many times trusting them. But is 12 bit 444 paid license or free firmware upgrade?
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Viddovation
Veteran
Well the O7Q base is only 1080p 10bit 422 YUV. That's what I gleaned from their webpage. For the FS700 1080p 12bit RGB 444 and 10bit YUV 50p/60p 422 is part of the $795 paid featureset currently labeled as "Sony". So, I don't expect they'll let you use it for free...
Viddovation
Veteran
A fair question. The cards are good for somewhere around 36-40 minutes of 12bit RGB 444 and 77minutes of 10bit 422 footage, depending on the exact codec used. In practice, I found two cards sufficient to get through a 12 hour feature day, generally. We'd swap the cards at lunch. Mind you, that set it was important not to run out of media, so I convinced the production to rent a third card. We hardly used it, but it was good peace of mind.
I'm looking into acquiring another card or two. Just waiting on the price. Not interested in paying $1000+ per card.
SJX
Veteran
You are probably right but maybe Mitch can say something.
SJX
Veteran
I this per card or with the 2 cards together?
How you get around the HDCAM SR codec only limitation?