Sony BURANO

NorBro

NorBro

Major Contributor
I'll always be a Canon guy but low-key like Sony more. They are just doing things better right now (and have been).

Not much info available, but if this isn't a $20K-ish Venice II compadre (it has a badge) then this usually means new cinema cameras from Canon will be incoming within 6 months.

https://pro.sony/en_GB/cinematograph...inealta-burano
 
And given that the Alexa 35 is (or will be, once we get shooting again) a big success, it has proven the need for new high end S35 cameras.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Charles, how do you feel about the F55 with an R7 RAW / X-OCN recorder in 2023?
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Have no experience shooting RAW with F55. Haven't touched one in maybe 7-8 years. I always felt it was a decent enough camera, perhaps a little more broadcast DNA than cinematic. Do you shoot with it using that raw recorder, and if so how would you characterize the improvements in image as a result?

As I've mentioned here in the past, I have never been requested or allowed to shoot RAW on any project I was hired onto, and most of the colorists I've worked with have said they rarely see any major benefit to it (this is assuming "properly" shot footage that didn't need a major save), they usually transcode to ProRes and never go back to camera original.
 
Run&Gun said:
Full frame can be a big hinderance. A s35 sized sensor is plenty for most situations. And even it can be a hinderance, at times.
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Gotta use AF to make it better...which I know you don't work in that world. (If it's about the FOV, most of these new mirrorless' can crop in.)

Sometimes I get the manual focusing bug and within 5 minutes I'm thinking how much this sucks.

Really can't do it anymore...I've paid my dues and don't want to be a part of anything to do with it; I don't believe in manual focusing anymore. lol
 
CharlesPapert said:
And given that the Alexa 35 is (or will be, once we get shooting again) a big success, it has proven the need for new high end S35 cameras.
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Yep... Finalizing the purchase of mine this week. One of my main clients is largely an "Arri Shop" and they are leaning towards migrating to A35's. They are shooting a project right now using a mix of miLF's and an A35. Mine will probably go into that mix, as soon as I get it.
 
NorBro said:
Gotta use AF to make it better...which I know you don't work in that world. (If it's about the FOV, most of these new mirrorless' can crop in.)

Sometimes I get the manual focusing bug and within 5 minutes I'm thinking how much this sucks.

Really can't do it anymore...I've paid my dues and don't want to be a part of anything to do with it; I don't believe in manual focusing anymore. lol
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It's not just the focusing aspect, but also the DoF and lens choices.
 
I missed the Sony LR1 industrial compact drone camera yesterday and I think that's pretty telling that they're putting 16-bit RAW output in something like that and at that price point. Maybe 16-bit RAW is going to be the new must-have feature of Sony cameras? If the Burano joins that compact form factor in a more feature rich cinema-style camera by comparison then we are going to have some interesting upgrades in the creative cinematography scene. While S35 can be useful, the LR1 is full frame so we can see that it can be done already so the ball is clearly in Sony's court with what the Burano will be.
 
BURANO? CineAlta emblem? 6K S35 F55 replacement sitting between FX9 and Venice? Red Komodo competition. Fascinated by its very extended lens mount? Interested to see what gives?

Chris Young
 
CharlesPapert said:
Have no experience shooting RAW with F55. Haven't touched one in maybe 7-8 years. I always felt it was a decent enough camera, perhaps a little more broadcast DNA than cinematic. Do you shoot with it using that raw recorder, and if so how would you characterize the improvements in image as a result?

As I've mentioned here in the past, I have never been requested or allowed to shoot RAW on any project I was hired onto, and most of the colorists I've worked with have said they rarely see any major benefit to it (this is assuming "properly" shot footage that didn't need a major save), they usually transcode to ProRes and never go back to camera original.
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Charles, like you , I am not a proponent of RAW and always try to steer people away from it. I think the extra complexity of the camera rig and bigger file sizes isn't worth the very slight difference in picture quality (if any) that it provides. Putting more time and attention into other aspects of a production will usually provide more bang for the buck. I have several cameras and recorders that will allow me to shoot RAW but I don't. With one exception -- the F55.

The F55 is a special case because it is 16-bit RAW, and the R7 or R5 recorder basically becomes part of the camera so its no different than shooting internally. Plus you don't have to record pure RAW because X-OCN provides 16-bit RAW quality with greatly reduced file sizes. Probably not much different than ProResHQ file sizes.

I grade all my own footage in Resolve and I can tell you from experience that grading RAW X-OCN from the F55 is so much easier than working with regular S-LOG from other cameras. It just looks really great with very little effort.

But the reason I have the F55/R7 isn't because of RAW picture quality or ease of grading. I have it because it was the only rig a few years ago that could do 4K @ 120 fps. Which is very important to me for wildlife, rocket launches, and sports. Having it record RAW was just a bonus. Nowdays a lot of cameras can do 4K @120 fps with XAVC-I, including my FX6 and even my A1 mirrorless, so the F55 doesn't get used as much as it once did. It is heavy, a battery hog, and has no AF. As NorBro says, once you've tasted really good AF, especially for the long-lens shooting I do most, it is hard to shoot anymore with fully-manual lenses and cameras. I am a convert to good AF. A few years ago I never thought I'd say that, but that's they way it is.

So, in my case, the advantages of the FX6 make it my go-to camera right now. But I've never been entirely happy with it. Compared to the F55, the FX6 gives me touch-tracking AF, Face/Eye Detect, Dual Base Sensitivity, better low-light, Variable ND, smaller size and weight, better power consumption, cheaper media and readers, smaller file sizes, the ability to use picture cache simultaneously with S&Q Motion, more robust customization options, a full-frame sensor, etc.

But with all that said, there's no question that the F55 still has superior image quality. A lot of very nice looking high-budget films and series have been shot on F55, so I'm not the only one impressed by the picture. Nevertheless, I am willing to trade some image quality for all the other advanced features of the FX6, in much the same way I'm willing to trade the superior skintones you get with tungsten lighting for all the practical benefits I get from LED lights. Image quality is important, but it's not everything.


I was interested in your opinion of where the F55 stands in 2023 because you move in different circles than I do. I suspect the special features that I like about the FX6 would have very little benefit for the work you do. I can't talk about the Burano directly, but let's just say hypothetically that it does have a S35 sensor, and can shoot X-OCN or XAVC-I internally like the Venice 2. On paper, that sounds exactly like the F55. Obviously the Burano will get many of the advanced featueres of the FX9 and FX6, so that gives it a leg up on the F55, but if someone wants a really good 4K S35 camera from Sony, the F55 is already there. That's why I was wondering if you had any thoughts about where the F55 stands in 2023.

But if you haven't used it, then the question is moot. In my opinion, Sony will never make a dent in Arri's popularity in Hollywood and I think they are wasting time chasing a pretty girl they won't catch. I think Burano could give us freelancers, small production companies, broadcasters, documentarians, etc. a more user-friendly, affordable, feature-rich, camera that blends the best of the F55, FX6, and Venice into a killer camera. We are the market Sony should should get back to chasing.
 
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cyvideo said:
BURANO? CineAlta emblem? 6K S35 F55 replacement sitting between FX9 and Venice? Red Komodo competition. Fascinated by its very extended lens mount? Interested to see what gives?

Chris Young
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Someone told me it could be interesting for F55 owners that never “upgraded”.
 
Doug Jensen said:
But if you haven't used it, then the question is moot. In my opinion, Sony will never make a dent in Arri's popularity in Hollywood and I think they are wasting time chasing a pretty girl they won't catch. I think Burano could give us freelancers, small production companies, broadcasters, documentarians, etc. a more user-friendly, affordable, feature-rich, camera that blends the best of the F55, FX6, and Venice into a killer camera. We are the market Sony should should get back to chasing.
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The Venice has been very well received in Hollywood circles, I have many colleagues who use those as much or more as Arri's. Most of my colleagues feel as I do that a given project is what should dictate the choice of camera as they all have their strengths and weaknesses. As I mentioned in the Varicam thread, I find the Alexa to have the best overall image but if I need the versatility of dual ISO, I'll go Sony or Varicam in a heartbeat. My next project will be Alexa 35 but only after I learned that it is the first Alexa that can compete in high ISO land, as I have a difficult night exterior where I will need to leverage that capability.

Regardless: interesting to hear about the F55 with the external recorders, and also about X-OCN. The paradigm of "compressed RAW" has some interest, if the file sizes and compatibility with edit and color systems can all get worked out I think there is some utility (Grant Petty living up to his surname with refusal to integrate ProRes RAW into Resolve, sigh). There's always room for codecs and workflow to improve.

I'm honestly trying to remember the last time I used an F55 and it is just not coming to me. Definitively in 2015 is all I've got, maybe a little project here and there. We had a couple on a scrappy multi-cam concert I directed in 2017, although those could have been F5's (I ended up grading that project and had to try to match those with C300's and A7's...bit of a task). It gets fuzzy!
 
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