Try the A6300(A6400-A6500-A6600) at 40ms !!
Sony announces FX9 4K camcorder with 6K fullframe sensor
- Thread starter indiawilds
- Start date
Try the A6300(A6400-A6500-A6600) at 40ms !!
If 16ms is too slow, then what 4K / 6K camera would you consider to be good ?
G
Guest
Guest
Based on Sam’s list, 16ms definitely shows rolling shutter artifacts. I thought Canon had improved since the original C300.
G
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Guest
Any questions you guys have for the Sony reps? We're getting a demo tomorrow and I'm going to ask a couple of things that affect our type of work.
- How's the moire and aliasing in S35 mode? We'd be using a CNe zoom for handheld work.
- How's the rolling shutter in full frame mode?
- Is slow mo over 60 fps still heavily pixel binning and line skipping? Alister says he noticed the images looked a little better and not as soft with FX-9 slow motion, has anything been changed to achieve HFR since the FS7.
- How's the moire and aliasing in S35 mode? We'd be using a CNe zoom for handheld work.
- How's the rolling shutter in full frame mode?
- Is slow mo over 60 fps still heavily pixel binning and line skipping? Alister says he noticed the images looked a little better and not as soft with FX-9 slow motion, has anything been changed to achieve HFR since the FS7.
G
Guest
Guest
Need a second opinion on the rolling shutter in Ff35 and s35. Obviously flash photography will be a factor, but just wanting to make sure the ff35 is not jello. Hopefully only a lazy lean.
dmitrizigany
Veteran
I’d like to now if the stabilisation data is included if recording ProRes via an external recorder through the HDMI/SDI outputs.
And if it will be included in the raw output...
G
Guest
Guest
Oh, and what RAW recording options are there?
dmitrizigany
Veteran
Well, none so far.
And raw output won’t be available until a future firmware update. (Alister has mentioned a summer timeframe).
So they couldn’t answer my questions directly. I tested the rolling shutter in FF mode myself, but really without being able to pause the frame it’s hard to tell. To the naked eye on the evf it seemed fine. The engineer did answer about the stabilizer metadata. He says that they are currently in talks with Atomos about future raw out recording options. He says that if and when they make a deal, they plan on outputting the metadata for the stabilization via raw. He said he actually was not sure if the metadata outputs straight to prores right now.
All of the firmware updates like DCI, higher frames rates etc. are planned for summer 2020. They talked about about the cinema lens line, 16-35 is spring but no planned dates for the secret other 2 (which I think will just be rehoused g master 24-70 and 70-200). They do have an external zoom servo motor, which could mean much smoother zooming than past Sony cine glass.
They did let us play with the camera while the room was still filling up and I used that time to mess with things. They had the high/low iso function mapped to button 2. I toggled it and rated the ISO down from 4000 compared to up from 800. We also set it to 12800 because we were in a dark room. The high iso performance is very impressive. That’s good news for the F4 kit lens, I can see finally being able to use it indoors. We tested the 24-70 g master. The room was dimly lit and the AF performed flawlessly. I did a bunch of unscientific tests basically going from nothing on camera to whip panning to a person. The focus took less than a second to lock in every time. Also, we never once saw it racking to search for focus, which in that lighting is probably what impressed me most.
This camera can change the way I shoot in certain scenarios. Right now we use the 17-120 because for typical standing eng interviews you want something parfocal that is fully manual and fast. With the FX9 we could use something as light as a 24-70 in this situation, and the autofocus is so accurate, that you could literally let the camera do the focusing and control zoom and iris/ND only. It’s that good.
Other notes is that it does not have a S16 mode so no way to adapt B4 lenses (they may add this in a future updates, but it’s not planned right now). We also tried the 24mm 1.4 and again, the autofocus was super impressive. We set it to 1.4, rated down the iso to expose properly, and let the autofocus do its thing. It was flawless. We never shoot in situations this dark, so the fact that it behaves this well made me feel like it’s a feature I might actually use without fear of it freaking out.
All of the firmware updates like DCI, higher frames rates etc. are planned for summer 2020. They talked about about the cinema lens line, 16-35 is spring but no planned dates for the secret other 2 (which I think will just be rehoused g master 24-70 and 70-200). They do have an external zoom servo motor, which could mean much smoother zooming than past Sony cine glass.
They did let us play with the camera while the room was still filling up and I used that time to mess with things. They had the high/low iso function mapped to button 2. I toggled it and rated the ISO down from 4000 compared to up from 800. We also set it to 12800 because we were in a dark room. The high iso performance is very impressive. That’s good news for the F4 kit lens, I can see finally being able to use it indoors. We tested the 24-70 g master. The room was dimly lit and the AF performed flawlessly. I did a bunch of unscientific tests basically going from nothing on camera to whip panning to a person. The focus took less than a second to lock in every time. Also, we never once saw it racking to search for focus, which in that lighting is probably what impressed me most.
This camera can change the way I shoot in certain scenarios. Right now we use the 17-120 because for typical standing eng interviews you want something parfocal that is fully manual and fast. With the FX9 we could use something as light as a 24-70 in this situation, and the autofocus is so accurate, that you could literally let the camera do the focusing and control zoom and iris/ND only. It’s that good.
Other notes is that it does not have a S16 mode so no way to adapt B4 lenses (they may add this in a future updates, but it’s not planned right now). We also tried the 24mm 1.4 and again, the autofocus was super impressive. We set it to 1.4, rated down the iso to expose properly, and let the autofocus do its thing. It was flawless. We never shoot in situations this dark, so the fact that it behaves this well made me feel like it’s a feature I might actually use without fear of it freaking out.
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G
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That’s good to hear!
G
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What would you say is clean iso limit? 3200? Or is 6400 clean?
What would you compare the RS to? Better than Sony A7 in 4K? As good as Canon C series or Red MX?
Your feedback has been great!
What would you compare the RS to? Better than Sony A7 in 4K? As good as Canon C series or Red MX?
Your feedback has been great!
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dmitrizigany
Veteran
Thanks for the report!
I can directly compare my Varicam LT as far as the dual ISO goes. Personally when I shoot at native 5000 I rate it down to about 2500 where it’s clean. The LT is a bit noisy regardless of native ISO, although it’s a pleasing noise mostly. The FX-9 (obviously judging by the lcd screen only) is cleaner native 4000 than the LT rated down to 2500. Of course the huge advantage it has is the FF Exmos R sensor.
The RS I tested (lcd only) with the 24mm 1.4. I was basically whipping around the beams on the windows. In real-time it looked better than the A7 to my eye. Of course freezing the frame will tell a better story. We have an A6500 which has abysmal RS, it’s nowhere near that bad.
Talking about it with the older cam ops, I thought of situations where the autofocus could change how we work. Obviously as older operators, AF is blasphemy, but there are scenarios where I truly think this camera can change that perception. Some examples are mixed zones post game. Usually (always) your reporter starts asking their question immediately when the player arrives. This results in still focusing when the person begins to answer the question. While this isn’t a huge deal, it means the first answer for each person almost always gets covered with video to avoid the focus crash zoom. With this AF I’m confident that you can just roll and let the camera snatch focus. It literally takes less than a second, faster than any human is gonna do it. Another scenario is walk and talks. Usually I’ll stop the camera as far down as possible to get a deeper dof and focus to infinity. Now you can do the walk and talk, have a very shallow dof, and have the advantage of a lens with stabilization.
These are a couple of examples, but there are so many more. Sit down interviews with squirmy subjects won’t require brain straining precision on the focus ring. I also asked the engineer Hugo (Yugo?) about S cinetone. Basically they’re messing with things to give an illusion. Obviously the color space on the Venice is huge, so they’re fudging things to fit that look in the P3 space. Fun fact: he created the class 480 codec for Globo in Brazil because they wanted crazy high Mbps. 960mbps in 4k is no joke.
The RS I tested (lcd only) with the 24mm 1.4. I was basically whipping around the beams on the windows. In real-time it looked better than the A7 to my eye. Of course freezing the frame will tell a better story. We have an A6500 which has abysmal RS, it’s nowhere near that bad.
Talking about it with the older cam ops, I thought of situations where the autofocus could change how we work. Obviously as older operators, AF is blasphemy, but there are scenarios where I truly think this camera can change that perception. Some examples are mixed zones post game. Usually (always) your reporter starts asking their question immediately when the player arrives. This results in still focusing when the person begins to answer the question. While this isn’t a huge deal, it means the first answer for each person almost always gets covered with video to avoid the focus crash zoom. With this AF I’m confident that you can just roll and let the camera snatch focus. It literally takes less than a second, faster than any human is gonna do it. Another scenario is walk and talks. Usually I’ll stop the camera as far down as possible to get a deeper dof and focus to infinity. Now you can do the walk and talk, have a very shallow dof, and have the advantage of a lens with stabilization.
These are a couple of examples, but there are so many more. Sit down interviews with squirmy subjects won’t require brain straining precision on the focus ring. I also asked the engineer Hugo (Yugo?) about S cinetone. Basically they’re messing with things to give an illusion. Obviously the color space on the Venice is huge, so they’re fudging things to fit that look in the P3 space. Fun fact: he created the class 480 codec for Globo in Brazil because they wanted crazy high Mbps. 960mbps in 4k is no joke.
That's why he's a news guy.
Run&Gun
Veteran
You can shoot it in s35 mode and use an IBE HDx35 adapter. The IBE blows the image up to cover a full s35 sensor. But it’ll cost you about 2.5 stops.
Liam Hall
Veteran
Great to know it performs better than a $1000 consumer camera.
There are $1000 cameras that don’t have that type of rolling shutter. The A6300/500 have notoriously bad RS. I’m just comparing cause you’d think it was that bad based on earlier comments.
G
Guest
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Haha, Liam. He was just ball-parking it. And i am grateful he can confirm it isn’t the worst.
Also, the Red Monstro has noticeable rolling shutter when doing the harlem whip pan shuffle.
For example, the C200 is considered “good”, yet, a driving car, or an action can reveal the rs. How much worse with the fx9 be in a real world shoot? Probably not. And it has the 4K s35 crop, so, for sports you get a longer focal range and tighter rs.
I look forward to the day when we don’t have RS, but i also don’t want to petend that some other camera is good. They all kind of suck.
Also, the Red Monstro has noticeable rolling shutter when doing the harlem whip pan shuffle.
For example, the C200 is considered “good”, yet, a driving car, or an action can reveal the rs. How much worse with the fx9 be in a real world shoot? Probably not. And it has the 4K s35 crop, so, for sports you get a longer focal range and tighter rs.
I look forward to the day when we don’t have RS, but i also don’t want to petend that some other camera is good. They all kind of suck.