Aharon Rothschild
Member
Hey everyone, I'm shooting a low budget feature on the A7s iii, ninja V (prores raw) and Ronin S. Happy to answer any questions about usability, build etc. I'm asking production for footage and will post with permission etc.
Sony A7SIII = $3500, 10-bit 4K120p internal, 16-bit 4K60p RAW out
- Thread starter ahalpert
- Start date
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Cool - what is your post-production workflow for editing the ProRes raw and have you done any head to head comparisons between RAW and the 10-bit internal codecs?
G
Guest
Guest
I'm pretty curious how far up the iso you can go before you start worrying about image quality loss, from an "A cam" point of view. It is obviously very usable for docs purposes.
For example, a lot of cameras are "clean" at 12,800, but they just look and feel different around there. So, they end up being best kept to 3200 or below.
On the A7sIII does iso 25,000 iso look good, or is NR mush setting in? Just curios, because so far, the footage is looking pretty good, and with raw and 10bit options, the grade should be pretty malleable.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Iso 12800 is startlingly clean in the in-camera recording. But it is pretty noisy from about 6400 until you get to 12800 so theres a donut hole of noise. I'm not sure if the color fidelity is as good at 12800. It seems like it's not but I haven't recorded a direct comparison with 640.
You can't turn off NR in-camera so I would need to record RAW to see what things actually look like. Certainly by ISO 51200 things are getting mushy due to NR. 25600 might be ok.
Aharon Rothschild
Member
Two possible post work flows. Edit with proxies and swap to camera originals after edit lock and change the Raw source settings in the editing software and export to Prores LOG and use a EDL or resolves scene cut detection to split the file or export prores clips with handles and a XML.
The second option is proxies for the edit and XML to conform in Scratch. I used to love Scratch but haven't used it in a while and they are now doing month to month rental at something like $100 a month.
I did shoot a sekonic 21 stop chart and did a raw and prores over - under and I'd be happy to share the files etc over Google drive if you dm me your email.
Aharon Rothschild
Member
Yes I did shoot a over under test that I can share over Google drive. I don't like to say much more than it's a very interesting difference between prores and raw when it comes to noise. Let me know you email and I'll share the files and you can decide for yourself.
How many stops in DR did you get in Raw recording to the Atomos? Did you test any other cameras before choosing the A7SIII?
Trek of Joy
Member
So far loving the a7s3. The AF is pretty amazing, love seeing the AF box locked onto someone's eye. Focus has been near perfect with moving subjects and when I'm on a gimbal.
Teddy_Dem
Well-known member
Looks like Adobe have released updates to make it easier to work with ProRes Raw in their apps (Premiere, After Effects, Media Encoder):
https://nofilmschool.com/premiere-adds-prores-raw-windows-support-intel-and-amd-gpus
I haven't tried it yet, but the ProRes Raw files should now be able to be displayed in the log colorspace/gamma as opposed to the linear gamma they had been displaying in with Premiere.
Updates include:
• Faster audio pre-roll in Premiere Pro
• HDR workflows now include support for Rec2100 PQ color working space in Premiere Pro and After Effects
• Color management for ARRI ProRes allows users to work with embedded LUTs, streamlining the workflow in Premiere Pro
• ProRes RAW to LOG color space conversion is now available in Premiere Pro, After Effects, and Adobe Media Encoder
https://nofilmschool.com/premiere-adds-prores-raw-windows-support-intel-and-amd-gpus
I haven't tried it yet, but the ProRes Raw files should now be able to be displayed in the log colorspace/gamma as opposed to the linear gamma they had been displaying in with Premiere.
Updates include:
• Faster audio pre-roll in Premiere Pro
• HDR workflows now include support for Rec2100 PQ color working space in Premiere Pro and After Effects
• Color management for ARRI ProRes allows users to work with embedded LUTs, streamlining the workflow in Premiere Pro
• ProRes RAW to LOG color space conversion is now available in Premiere Pro, After Effects, and Adobe Media Encoder
ahalpert
Major Contributor
What lenses are you using?
Trek of Joy
Member
Zooms: FE 12-24/4, Tamron 28-75 (on the cam in the image, though you can't see it), Tamron 70-180, FE 200-600
Primes: 24/1.4 GM, FE 35/1.8, FE 85/1.8
All have been stellar, AF is a step above the a7III's and the touchscreen makes it too easy. The big surprise is the 70-180, even handheld at full zoom I'm getting some really nice footage. Everyone likes to trash Sony's IBIS, but its been ok for me.
I'm super close to modding the 12-24 too, I have a filter holder that will allow the use of regular 100mm filters, but you have to shave off the two larger hood petals since the hood is fixed. Just can't quite bring myself to modding a lens, but I'm working up the nerve LOL!
Your wedding posts on the previous pages are fabulous. Nice job.
Chris
Trek of Joy
Member
If anyone is looking for v90 cards, Prograde has great prices on 2-packs. I picked up 2 128gb cards for $188 using the promo code ALPHAGVRD20. The one caveat is they're constantly going in/out of stock. So if you don't see what you want, just refresh it every 20 minutes or so and it'll pop back up. These have been flawless with all bitrates that you can record without a Type A card.
https://shop.progradedigital.com/?r...medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=4430555.6dafdb9
Chris
https://shop.progradedigital.com/?r...medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=4430555.6dafdb9
Chris
Trek of Joy
Member
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Nice lenses!
This is the first camera with autofocus that I have bothered using. Its been an interesting experience to see how different lenses behave.
I'm coming from EF mount and so far I only have the Sigma 24-70 and the Samyang 18 2.8, 35 1.4, and 85 1.4.
The sigma seems a little quicker to acquire and more consistent to maintain focus. But I only just got the samyangs and it seems like with different subject sensitivity and transition speed settings, they may perform just as well. Eye AF works pretty much equally well across them all. And although the sigma is much faster to stay on top of focus tracking in on an object than it is tracking out, where it lags (which I've heard is common with FE lenses), the Samyangs are a bit more even in both directions.
How do you find the Tamrons versus the Sonys? The 85 1.8 is supposed to be the best 85 for AF in e mount. And the 70-180 is supposed to be super speedy, I'm considering getting it. I bet that sigma delayed releasing their 70-200 because they realized it couldn't keep up with the tamron.
And how do you like the 12-24? I imagine that the distortion correction makes it perform admirably? I have the Laowa 12mm which I love but I bet that its low-distortion advantage is more or less nullified by these in-camera corrections. But I dont plan on plunking down the cash for another ultra wide. Right now I'm thinking probably the tamron 70-180 and maybe their 28-200 and then call it a day. But I'm a lens addict, so...
cyvideo
Veteran
I'm thinking of... being tempted to have a go at the A7SIII. Shouldn't because of the work situation so still trying to justify the move. I'm currently using an A7III for B cam and B roll with my own PP settings. What I would like to know is how how the 7SIII would look with my "out of the camera" settings. The crazy thing here is I can beg, borrow or steal a pro video or cinema camera for testing but not an A series as none of my pro suppliers handle the still cameras. The settings I'm using are below if anyone wants to suck them and see how it looks and report back. These settings aren't for anything cinematic. They are the best I can come up with for the most realistic images to my eye. Also for the greatest dynamic range highlights to detail in the darks. It also allows me to use the lowest ISO settings like 100 in bright high contrast sunlight / shadow conditions.. I can mix these settings quite happily with my own Custom FS7 settings. I think the shots below indicate the dynamic range available with these settings on the 7III and I would imagine you would see similar on the 7SIII using these settings. If any of you 7SIII shooters can offer any feed back on this I would love to hear from you. Please view on a 709 monitor/TV if you can as that's what I have set these setting up for.
Thanks in advance
Chris Young
PP10
Black -15
Gamma HLG3
Black gamma Wide [no effect under HLG]
Knee Manual - Point 100% - Slope +5 [no effect under HLG]
Color Mode 709
Saturation +7
Color Phase -3
Color Depth R-2, G-1, B-2, C-1, M+2, Y-3
Detail 0 [if adding detail during grading set to your own taste up to -7]
Thanks in advance
Chris Young
PP10
Black -15
Gamma HLG3
Black gamma Wide [no effect under HLG]
Knee Manual - Point 100% - Slope +5 [no effect under HLG]
Color Mode 709
Saturation +7
Color Phase -3
Color Depth R-2, G-1, B-2, C-1, M+2, Y-3
Detail 0 [if adding detail during grading set to your own taste up to -7]
Trek of Joy
Member
The Sigma's AF should be better with its focusing motors, the Samyang 1.4's are only so-so compared to other options. I had the 35/85 and switched to the FE 1.8's, which are pretty much flawless AF-wise, really fast and accurate, and stays locked on to your subject really well, bonus they're really small and gimbal friendly too. The partial stop loss is worth the trade for size/IQ and better AF. The Sammy's have a warm cast too, the Sony's are more neutral.
I was shooting with the GM 2.8 trinity, which are great but really bulky and I try to have my entire kit fit in one carry-on size backpack. I moved to the Tamrons and the 12-24 to shed weight and be more gimbal friendly. The AF with the Tamrons are really good, occasionally they have a slight hesitation before locking onto your subject, but that's rare and usually something really low contrast - at least on the a7III. I've had zero issues with the a7s3, tap the LCD and it sticks to everything. They track subjects really well and IQ is GM level. You do give up range and controls on the lens like the custom buttons and the AF/MF switch (the one I wish they had) compared to the 24-70's and 70-200's. But for a 2.8 zoom. But they're so small/light with such great performance, its everything you want a zoom to be. The 70-180 also extends, but its so tiny compared to the GM and AF/IQ is so good, its something I can live with for the convenience of the zoom.
The 12-24 is a really fun lens. I got it because I use the 16-35 in the 16-20mm range mostly and wanted to go a little wider, so I was able to shed weight and go a lot wider LOL! The filter issue is its only drawback IMO. But you can stuff 77mm filters into the hood without contacting the front element, so you don't have to go the chop route to avoid those ridiculous 150mm filters. There's a great thread on Fred Miranda about that, linked below. I just recently invested in a bunch of 100mm filters for landscape photography and I don't want to eat the loss selling those and buying more expensive 150mm filters. There's an adapter that a 100mm filter holder will clamp onto, but as mentioned you have to chop down the two longer petals to be even with the shorter ones. Yikes.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1503152/0
All in all, every one of my lenses are just fantastic on the a7s3, the real time tracking blows me away every time I'm shooting. I'm doing some traveling in the next couple weeks to the Grand Canyon and I'll be shooting a lot while putting the camera through its paces. So far I've just been shooting standard profile with 10-bit to keep things quick and easy.
Cheers
Chris
Chris - give me a few days. And I will try this out and get back with you - as I'm trying out my a7sIII that arrived recently and also want to try other PP settings that I've used with my FS7 and a6300.
But I believe you should get nearly the same results... perhaps a little cleaner at higher ISOs.
scorsesefan
Veteran
Anyone try matching the A7SIII to their FS7 yet?
cyvideo
Veteran
Hey thanks Mr. FPV. That would of great assistance. Really appreciate the response. Agree I think the results should be similar but if you can get a similar look with those exact settings then that would help convince me to make the jump. Thanks again Mark.
Chris Young