Sony A7SIII = $3500, 10-bit 4K120p internal, 16-bit 4K60p RAW out

If it's priced around $2,000, as the rumors go, not having a 10-bit codec will be nearly criminal. Not in the way they're holding a gun to anyone's head but just "it would cost us nothing but we decided to draw out the demise of the industry for a while longer while showing a consumer two middle fingers".

But, hey, they self-crippled the photographic capabilities of SIII, so it's not like they're hiding those middle fingers from anyone.
 
It's several pages back here: we don't know if that's the one they're using, but Sony has a sensor with the specs of the a7S III, and apart from the low-res 12Mpix mode it allows for a QuadBayer mode where each photosite is divided into a 2x2 and you get 48Mpix stills. This is very common in phones now, because you get the best of both worlds: clean low-Mpix images in low light, and detailed high-Mpix images in sunlight.

here:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...AW-out&p=1986838661&viewfull=1#post1986838661
 
Yeah I'm not convinced that it's quad Bayer but I could be.

I doubt it would have such a killer fast RS and high fps with higher res sensor

Personally I'm cool with the resolution. Screw stills. I've got my 5dmk3
 
Samuel H said:
It's several pages back here: we don't know if that's the one they're using, but Sony has a sensor with the specs of the a7S III, and apart from the low-res 12Mpix mode it allows for a QuadBayer mode where each photosite is divided into a 2x2 and you get 48Mpix stills. This is very common in phones now, because you get the best of both worlds: clean low-Mpix images in low light, and detailed high-Mpix images in sunlight.

here:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...AW-out&p=1986838661&viewfull=1#post1986838661
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But the A7SIII isn't stacked right?
 
We've all seen the Nikon D800 and the Blackmagic 12K cameras and know that one can only do so much pixel combining to reduce noise.

This was shot in daylight:
50327555487_85b7656e3c.jpg


50327557937_c8cd69ee74_z.jpg

pretty easy to take that out with chroma noise reduction or crushing the shadows, but still. Also, not knocking the BM12K or higher res cameras in general. They're gorgeous cameras. (not to mention, the BM12K likely does better in low light than the Alexa classic) Just saying I am not seeing that more smaller pixels is a true replacement to larger pixels just yet. However, there are obvious reasons to use higher megapixels for some things. Just that I really like the Sony A series eco system. has a camera body for the main types of shooters, and it would seem strange if all of the A series cameras went after resolution.
 
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ahalpert said:
Yeah I'm not convinced that it's quad Bayer but I could be.

I doubt it would have such a killer fast RS and high fps with higher res sensor

Personally I'm cool with the resolution. Screw stills. I've got my 5dmk3
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ahalpert said:
But the A7SIII isn't stacked right?
Click to expand...

Sony has made no claims that the a7S III has a stacked sensor, which doesn't mean it doesn't have one. Though yes, they usually boast those things, as they did on the a9 and IIRC also on VENICE.

The thing with quad Bayer is that it's usually designed for a very fast readout. We don't know if the a7S III has that sensor I linked, or if that datasheet is actually real (I haven't found the full version), but this one seems to be, and it's a quad-Bayer FF sensor capable of 25 fps in 15 Mpix 14-bit, 60 fps in 15 Mpix 12-bit... and 3.75 fps in 61 MPix 16-bit mode!! That's from 2019, too. No idea why they would go for a lesser sensor on the a7S III.
 
Considering what Sony charges for the camera, it could have put in the 24 MPX sensor from S1/S1H, A7III, Sigma fp with a 6K-to-4K downsampling, i.e., more or less copying the S1H (with a superior auto focus) for about the same price but with a year in between the shipping dates. Of course, Sony could have charged a little more for an S1H clone, though that would break up the aforementioned cartel checkerboard.

And, without the Quad Bayer, Sony could have still offered two different pixel shift options for the photographers - a 4-into-2 for 24 MPX or 16-into-4 for 48. It's offering neither, though Panasonic is putting forth the 16-into-4 for 96 on S5 using a Sony sensor.
 
I believe that 24 Mpix sensor can only achieve video frame rates by switching to 12-bit ADC, so I wouldn't consider it superior.

With the r5 overheating, the poor AF of the S5, and the 12 Mpix limitation of the a7SIII, they're making it a lot easier for me to just keep using my p4k and save some money. Very thankful for that, particularly this year.
 
DLD said:
Considering what Sony charges for the camera, it could have put in the 24 MPX sensor from S1/S1H, A7III, Sigma fp with a 6K-to-4K downsampling, i.e., more or less copying the S1H (with a superior auto focus) for about the same price but with a year in between the shipping dates. Of course, Sony could have charged a little more for an S1H clone, though that would break up the aforementioned cartel checkerboard.

And, without the Quad Bayer, Sony could have still offered two different pixel shift options for the photographers - a 4-into-2 for 24 MPX or 16-into-4 for 48. It's offering neither, though Panasonic is putting forth the 16-into-4 for 96 on S5 using a Sony sensor.
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But didn’t Sony make the A7 for that? I think the A7iii had a 24mp sensor. Would be understandable if the A7iv continues that more middle of the road megapixel count trend.

Why are you worried about a niche camera like the DR low light beast of an A7s needing more megapixels and be oming like every other camera on the market... even competing with it’s brother A7 and A7r? Seems odd.


I very much like the idea of the A series eco system.
 
If the A7sIII has a 12MP sensor with larger than 7micron photosites, that feels like a philosophical win for image quality.
 
Samuel H said:
I believe that 24 Mpix sensor can only achieve video frame rates by switching to 12-bit ADC, so I wouldn't consider it superior.

With the r5 overheating, the poor AF of the S5, and the 12 Mpix limitation of the a7SIII, they're making it a lot easier for me to just keep using my p4k and save some money. Very thankful for that, particularly this year.
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A7s3 seems to use the same ADC for every frame rate. So I don't think it's ever using the highest bit depth conversion possible
 
My general bullet points that exclude the price (though it's a major variable as well).

A) Sony makes a videocentric camera that has a bit more to offer the still shooters - 12 MPX, 4K 10-bit, excellent low light, pixel shift 24/48 MPX for stills.

B) Sony makes a 50/50 hybrid - 6K or 6K-into-4K, 10-bit, good low light, 24/48/96 MPX for still shooters (48/96 via the pixel shift).

C) Sony makes a photocentric camera - 61 MPX, center-crop or pixel bin 4K/6K (or full-readout 8K for a high end version a la R5).

There are other variations, obviously. Pocket 6K is a $2,000 6K Raw camera. None of the Sony, Panasonic or Canon comes close.
 
James0b57 said:
But didn’t Sony make the A7 for that? I think the A7iii had a 24mp sensor. Would be understandable if the A7iv continues that more middle of the road megapixel count trend.

Why are you worried about a niche camera like the DR low light beast of an A7s needing more megapixels and be oming like every other camera on the market... even competing with it’s brother A7 and A7r? Seems odd.


I very much like the idea of the A series eco system.
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I'd be perfectly fine with this if there was a 24 Mpix version with 4k 60fps and the codec and DR of the a7S III. Similar to what DLD stated but making sure the DR is there too. Unless we get that, then the a7S III is not only the low-light model, but also the video model, and the compromise in terms of stills is pretty big (bigger than on other brands).
 
Samuel H said:
I'd be perfectly fine with this if there was a 24 Mpix version with 4k 60fps and the codec and DR of the a7S III. Similar to what DLD stated but making sure the DR is there too. Unless we get that, then the a7S III is not only the low-light model, but also the video model, and the compromise in terms of stills is pretty big (bigger than on other brands).
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You are worried that there won't be a 24mp+ 10bit video Sony A model in 2021?

The base A7 model is due for a refresh, and it usually inherits the main video features of the A7S, while appealing to the more general user. It is cheaper too.

The A7S is a special use camera. Although, I'll admit, I enjoyed taking stills with the A7SII and not filling up the cards or my hard drives. And no one ever notices it is 12MP, because who prints big blow ups? I think the A7S is a great stills camera for more practical photographs. 12MP to stills, is the 2K of video. it is enough. I'm just so tired of manufacturers sacrificing specialized features for mega pixel counts that don't really net much difference.
 
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Samuel H said:
I'd be perfectly fine with this if there was a 24 Mpix version with 4k 60fps and the codec and DR of the a7S III. Similar to what DLD stated but making sure the DR is there too. Unless we get that, then the a7S III is not only the low-light model, but also the video model, and the compromise in terms of stills is pretty big (bigger than on other brands).
Click to expand...

I would also prefer a 24Mpix sensor as the benefits outweigh the tiny low light loss with newer sensors. In fact, Sony intentionally went that route as a way to cripple the camera to force users to buy another unit for photography if they need more than 12Mpix. With a 24Mpix Sony could have provided 6k like the BM 6k camera or at least provide over-sampled 4k. Now we wait to see how they are going to cripple the FX6 to differentiate it from the FX9.
 
Ken1212 said:
I would also prefer a 24Mpix sensor as the benefits outweigh the tiny low light loss with newer sensors. In fact, Sony intentionally went that route as a way to cripple the camera to force users to buy another unit for photography if they need more than 12Mpix. With a 24Mpix Sony could have provided 6k like the BM 6k camera or at least provide over-sampled 4k. Now we wait to see how they are going to cripple the FX6 to differentiate it from the FX9.
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Sony wouldn't be able to achieve 1/100s full sensor readout time @12bit on A7S III with a 24MP sensor on a consumer camera. FYI, A7III has a full sensor readout time of about 1/40s @12bit.
 
I think the A7s has a sweet spot. it is currently the best "night vision" camera readily available, and does gimbal, auto focus, good rolling shutter, good native dynamic range.

Think if all cameras had 24MP or higher and then you want to go shoot a documentary like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7Ql4xmu9xk
...better believe the A7S3 is on that short list!

but at the end of the day, there are so many other options for 24MP type cameras, that I am surprised anyone is complaining about the A7S in that regard. The A7IV is just around the corner, and chances are high that it will have 10bit s-log3.
 
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