FS7: Sony A7S with Atomos Shogun or Sony FS7 - recommendations?

S

shoot2score67

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Upgrading from Canon DSLR (T2i/70D) to two camera FS7/A7S setup. But want to defray costs and pick one to start.

We shoot run-and-gun, events, backstage theater, interviews with actors around San Francisco for http://www.starkinsider.com

I like that the A7S can be stealthy when de-rigged. But with Atomos wonder how bulky? Not sure I like XLR breakout cable that has 4 connectors. Seems that if I just want to connect my Sennheiser shotgun I will still have 3 dangling? Love A7S low light which would be good for dark theaters. Also like that it uses SD cards. With a movcam cage seems quite good.

On the other hand...

For just a few thousand more, the FS7 gives internal 4K, proper XLR inputs, NDs, possibly a more sturdy design, etc. Brand new, seems amazing for the money.

I'm still leaning towards FS7. Thoughts and suggestions appreciated! (sorry if wrong place to post!)

Clint
 
The external recorder adds a few points where things can fail. You want your main rig to be always working, not dropping frames when you bump a cable or forget to change the other battery.
The FS7 with speedbooster means you can be shooting at f/1.0 at a native 2000 ISO, certainly enough for anything where you have access to even a tiny LED light.

I think you'd be best off getting the FS7 first, so you can have audio figured out. Then add the A7s as a b cam if you want to gather B roll by the light of fireflies.
 
By all means start with the FS7. Running the A7S with external recorder (and I must say I am more partial to Odyssey over Shogun) is definitely a solution but it creates the need for one of those franken-rigs that go back to the beginning of DSLR days. I have nothing against the A7S and in fact wish that I could buy one. Think of it this way-- about $2400 for the A7S, $2300 for Odyssey or $2000 for Shogun, add media for Shogun, and then maybe even $1000 to completely rig out the A7S. You can shoot the FS7 right out of the box with no additional rigging and a strong internal codec.

In the ideal world, owning both FS7 and A7S would be an awesome combination.

Ned Soltz
 
I have both, and I shot 3 one hour shows for a European Network on the a7s. The Audio isn't the big problem Sony makes an excellent xlr adapter - whats really annoying is not having NDs and constantly screwing filters on and off. Having said that the shows look great the execs were convinced they were shot on an F5 or c300. When you need low profile, shoot in the dark in tight spaces etc the a7s is unbeatable so you want to use it for that. But for normal shooting you want the fs7.

Oh and don't do that whole shogun thing to yourself- most likely you don't really need 4k if you really do and ONLY shoot in a studio then maybe if you are moving around then get a real camera. Stop feeding this whole "rigging industry" I always see these poor schmucks with their shoulder mounts and counterbalances and what have you treeing to shoot in the field - just stop it.
 
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Exactly the a7s is a tool for a certain kind of shooting, just like the FS7 is. The whole point of the a7S is mobility but it has most of the things a proper camera has which most DSLRs have lacked until now (except for built in NDs as mentioned). The audio circuitry, noise floor and sound quality on the a7S is the same as on the bigger Sony XDCAM and F series cameras that have 48 kHz 16 bit 2 track audio.
 
how different is image quality on two cameras? A7s from some tests, seem to have much more aliasing, they have different sensor, don't they?
 
The FS7 has proven to be incredibly versatile for me. I've done everything from internal training vids, to live streaming events, to corporates to promos and now doing narrative work. And today I'll be doing 240fps commercial clips.

There's certainly a camera for each type of shoot that is probably better, but I truly don't think there is anything out there that can turn its hand so well to so many different types of job. As so often mentioned, it really is a Swiss Army Knife of cameras.

I've not shot video with my A7s in over 4 months.
 
I have an FS700+O7Q and an A7s. I would definitely recommend the FS7 for a more versatile professional rig if you are doing work for clients. With the A7s you will soon notice that you need all sorts of additional stuff. You need ND's, you need a rig to keep it stable, additional audio gear and most importantly you will need a way to see focus. It's a full frame camera. I shot 10 days with it and what I found the most difficult is getting critical focus done quickly. The focus zoom is great but it is difficult to use when changing composition or distance from subject. Its doable but not as easy as FS700 (or FS7 I presume).
 
FS7 it is! Thanks for all the feedback. What a community!

Yes, I want to avoid franken-rig. As much as I adore A7S seems like FS7 would be better fit - ready out of box, everything integrated so less cables, batteries to worry about. A7S maybe later as b/stealth cam.

I've been shooting Canon DSLRs for last 5 years and developed interesting shooting position that involves keeping camera on tripod, occasionally lifting it for mini-crane shots, often using it as a monopod, etc. During interviews I shoot main shot from center, then pop off the 70D for getting close-ups, other angles. All to make it look like I have multi-cam setup! :) I'm hoping I can use FS7 in similar manner so I'm slightly concerned about adjusting.

I reviewed my spreadsheet, and here's what I plan to order shortly:

Sony PXW-FS7 Super 35 Camera
Sony FE PZ 28-135mm f/4 G OSS Lens
Sony 64GB G Series XQD Format Version 2 Memory Card (2) + 32GB (1)
Sony BP-U60 battery (FS7)
Sony XQD Card Reader
Portabrace case

[TD="align: right"]$7,999[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]885[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]269[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]37[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]499[/TD]


I decided to hold off on 28-135mm kit lens as seems like issues? I will use my existing Canon glass with Metabones. This is one of our biggest business expenses ever, but I hope proves durable over long-term.

I plan to learn it, then use the FS7 for a music festival shoot in March in Napa. I'l probably write about my experiences on my site.

Cheers,
Clint

Oh, one more thing: I should note I shoot solely for Stark Insider. No clients. So I'm selfishly concerned about my own site/videos, and don't need to worry about clients (though I have shot for Macy's and others in the past).
 
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@nsoltz Thanks, I didn't know that. Maybe I can put the savings toward Starbucks!

@ChristopherA Funny enough, I just watched Doug's first lesson which is free on Vimeo. I was impressed, and got to learn about FS7 before I finally place order. I will likely buy his course.

For some reason though I keep liking the dual pixel on Canon C100 Mark II ("Just when I thought I was out... they [Canon] pull me back in."). But pretty much -- pretty much! -- made up mind to go FS7.
 
Good start. I would suggest living with camera before you start adding peripherals. I, for example, have a hard time with the built in shoulder pad. Others do not and, in fact, Juan Martinez tells me that as far as he is concerned, the built in pad is fine. Doesn't work for me so I need a baseplate. If you find that the handle isn't long enough, you may want to add a rosette extender (Tilta has one for about $45). WHile you will receive a free Metabones Mark IV (presuming you are in the US) it will take a month or more to get it. Consider the Commlite adapter for your EF glass as a stop gap and an extra. See if you like shooting with EF glass. I am debating completely manual lenses like old Zeiss Contax with a Metabones E to Y/C adapter. I just like a manual lens and don't deal well with that iris by wire on EF. That's just me. But I'm not rushing out to buy anything. Got to live with it first.

Good luck

Ned Soltz
 
Ned, thanks for heads up on Metabones taking a month+ to arrive. I only have EF glass, so might just get a Sony lens in the interim. I wouldn't mind having one anyways for stealthier/lighter setup. Totally agree with you, learn camera, buy peripherals on the go - for the FS7 the (nifty) armgrip is something I need to play with in person and on some shoots to get feel for if it will work for me as is.

Meantime I'm exploring business leases. Might go that route if I can get good rate.

Also, I keep reading how darn good C100 II is, especially with Ninja Blade. That might still be an option. And spend savings on lenses. We deliver to web, so might be fine, though I like re-framing and punch-in options that 4K could provide. Then there's NAB in just about sixty days... sigh... paralysis-analysis...

Clint
 
You never know what will be announced at NAB. And you never know when anything announced at NAB will actually ship. The downside to me of both C100 and C300 is the same as a DSLR-- you really need a rig. C100 has weaker internal codec but it autofocus is excellent. Ninja Blade is a very inexpensive way to get ProRes from your C100, though. The usual mantra is never buy anything you don't need until NAB. You do need to test both cameras, see how they feel to you, look at the images, practice the workflow. You ultimately have to see what works best for you an your clients. And it isn't permanent. You can make money with it, depreciate it, sell it. A lease does lock you into the camera and may give you less flexibility if you decide you hate it and want to switch cameras. Check the terms of lease for early termination. I personally do not look C100 or C300 form factors but that is just my preference.

Ned
 
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