Sony A77 release very soon - is this the 5D/7D/GH2 killer?

squig said:
It may not be the exact same sensor but ability wise is should be on par.
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No - in a very big way.

The Sony F3/FS100 sensor was designed "from the ground up" as a 1080 video sensor -- and that's the entire reason it's a very, very serious competitor to the AF100 and (with S-Log upgrade) even the Red One and Alexa (newest report from Abel Cine says 13.5 stops of latitude with the S-Log upgrade). Meaning -- if you took still photos with the F3/FS100 sensor -- you'd end up with two or so megapixel images. It's precisely because of the exclusively video optimized sensor that you're getting "big pixels" that inspire people to say things like "this thing can see in the dark."

I'm not a Sony fan -- actually I've been a Sony basher for nearly a decade -- but in this particular situation they deserve some genuine credit. While Panasonic took a still photo sensor and stuck it in a video camera, Sony really did create a large sensor video camera.

Meaning -- no -- this "24.3" megapixel sensor is in no way the F3/FS100 sensor and video from it will not be the same. Sony has a thirty or forty minute presentation about the development of the F3/FS100 sensor online somewhere -- perhaps someone can post the link.

Yes, it would be nice if, two or three years later, Sony has a response to the 7D, and yes it would be nice if that response didn't have the problems of the "first generation" Canon HDSLR cameras. And, this A77 may (note: "may") produce some nice looking video. But -- it's absolutely not the F3/FS100 sensor and you should not expect it to be "on par" in terms of video -- in the exact same way still photos from an F3/FS100 wouldn't be "on par" with an A77.
 
dop16mm said:
Why would they not put the top of the line hd tuned sensor into the vg20, the camera they are specifically marketing as a video camera. To protect the fs100, of course. But the people that may buy the vg20, present company excepted have never even heard of the fs100, it is not a consumer camera available to play with at the local store. Why not just step up and make it the best that it can be and take the market by the balls. Those in the know that need the difference and things like xlr audio will step up and pay the difference, but it is a different market and volume. That said if they can get most of the cmos artifacts in check and make it work like a video cam should, I'm in. I can handle jacking in a juiced-link.

Assuming video quality is the same and offers full manual control, the nex-5n with 16mm pancake package would make a great b-cam.

Way back in the day I started out using sony 8mm and Hi-8. They had the best consumer cams available at the time, with full controls and nothing left out except for truly pro features like xlr and 3-chip. Then they started to really suck, and each new generation of products left something out to reach a lower more mainstream pricepoint. I really hope they have it right this time. The vg-10 was a good try design wise, but left out key features. I think there is room at the $2k prosumer price point. And I mean high end consumer cams, not low end pro cams, that is where prosumer comes from, it has just been taken over by pro divisions. To me $5k is not prosumer or advanced hobbyist, it is a business investment and must return profit, thereby Pro. $2k is the dividing line that can stay amateur, and make your little movies, that have the potential to be something bigger.
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I could not agree with you more.....that $2000 price point is there to be owned by SOMEBODY (camcorder wise) What you have now is $1000 consumer cams and then the price jumps to $3000-3500. There are a few exceptions - The HMC40, XA10, etc. but there is room for somebody to really take it and take it big. Will they....I doubt it. It is an odd segment to market....because at that money it's beyond the "soccer mom/dad crowd and features wise would have to be below the classic $3000 cameras (XHA1s, HMC150, etc.)

I think Panasonic is the best when it comes to this sort of thing- The new line for this fall is just freaking brilliant (in my opinion anyway) 3 cameras.....from est $3999 all the way up to around $6000 or so. You don't lose alot features wise by choosing the AC130 instead of the AC160 or HPX250....mainly codec, audio format and a few other things....but you still get the same sensors, lens, LCD, XLRs, image adjustments, and on and on. (but if you really need those other things they're worth the price) Wish other companies were so smart....
 
i doubt it will be the same sensor as the fs100/f3
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Well, believe me, the same or not, the new cameras from Sony are coming out with the newest top of the line sensor out there. Absolutely superb. And the transparent mirror technology is incredible. These new cams from Sony are going to give many other camera companies a very though competition. And they are not cheap.
 
squig said:
It may not be the exact same sensor but ability wise is should be on par. Consider that the sensor in the 7D quickly found it's way into every Canon APS-C DSLR. The only way Sony is going to take market share from Nikon and Canon is to put their best sensor technology into their new DSLRs. The Pentax K5 has a 16MP Sony sensor and scored very well on the DXO Mark http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Ratings So we can expect these new 24MP EXMOR sensors to be even better with D3s/FS100 like low noise/low light capability. The D800 should blow the 5D away in high ISO but I have doubts about whether Nikon has started to take the video market seriously enough and improved the codec or added 60p. If the D800 isn't up to scratch the A77 should be a great stopgap until the 5DMKIII is released if it is indeed not going to be released until next year. Canon would be mad though to not put out a new full frame DSLR to compete with the D800.
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f3/fs100 sensor has 3.36 megapixel while the dslrs has 24megapixels (like you said) so doing the math, it cant perform as the fs100 with all that pixels, lightsensitivity will be affected.

also id like to add, stop thinking that sony has this camera out for video reasons. it still and will always be a stills first camera. dream on.

Well, believe me, the same or not, the new cameras from Sony are coming out with the newest top of the line sensor out there. Absolutely superb. And the transparent mirror technology is incredible. These new cams from Sony are going to give many other camera companies a very though competition. And they are not cheap.
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sure top of the line sensors. but not the same video specific sensor. it will perform better than previous sensors but it wont perform as good as the F3/fs100.
 
I understand the less megapixel more light sensitivity tech but the backlighting on the EXMOR sensors is supposed to be a huge improvement in low light. The 5D has 21 megapixels but is still very good in low light. The D3s is 12 megapixel and incredible in low light. The rumours are stating that the new Sony DSLRs are optimised for video which hopefully translates to no aliasing or moire which Panasonic have already achieved with 14 megapixel DSLRs. Ok so the A77 won't "technically" be on par with the FS100 but put some good actors in front of it working from a good script and I bet only a pixel peeper will notice the difference. A Zacuto shootout is not a film. The DSLRs in the shootout look like crap. Watch the 5D stuff on my vimeo page and tell me it looks like crap.

What has me interested in the A65/77 is that it "could" be a big improvement on the current crop of APS-C DSLRs. Currently none of them really cut it for me in low light vs the 5D. I'd like to get something that does 1080p 60p in low light with no aliasing, moire, or rolling shutter with a HDMI feed that doesn't cost $5000. If it comes in full frame VistaVision even better.
 
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Lowlight? If you dont light your scenes then you're a minority800 iso is good enough.
 
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dcloud said:
Lowlight? If you dont light your scenes then you're a minority800 iso is good enough.
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It's not just about low light. Cleaner high ISOs give you more options with DOF and lens choices, especially with a full frame camera.

I worked on a short last year that we shot inside a house lit with one table lamp and some daylight @ 1250 ISO and it looked great. The grain/noise reminded me a lot of some of my favourite films shot on 35mm in the 70's. The 5D grain/noise is a bit blocky, the D3s has a really fine grain that looks a lot more filmic. Give me the D3s sensor with fixes to all the known DSLR quirks for $3000 and I'll be a very happy boy.

You just can't light some scenes how you'd like to if you're on a small budget and/or don't have permissions. I love sculpting with light, I just don't like lugging a truck full of them.
 
Currently Sony and Canon are arguably the best sensor developers for digital imaging. I'm sure this camera is going to be pretty noiseless for stills, but obviously not on the level of the fs100 and F3 for video. It should, however, perform close to a 7D, however, it should still have artifacts.

Sony made the first move, what are Canon (and Panasonic, for the matter) up to next?

Really, one company that could really change the game would be Nikon. They don't have anything video at all to protect!
 
bottomline id wait for this to be released first by sony. if its low bitrate, forget it. the sony lenses dont interest me enough already.
lets try not to get our hopes up.

im getting a gh2 soon and i dont care what camera comes next. these cams are so cheap why worry?
sell your current cam buy the new one ;-) you buy your cam to make films and earn it back
not do nothing about it and whine if a new cam comes out.

a lot of people still shot with the gh13 despite the gh2 being better & out.
 
I've come close to picking up a GH2 myself after seeing the 42Mbit/s hack but with all these rumours of new DSLRs this month from Sony, Nikon and Canon, I figure there has to be something better coming very soon.

Those Sony lenses look surprisingly good. The e-mount zoom has really nice bokeh. I'm a lens freak, I have a full set of vintage Leica Rs. 30 lenses at last count.
 
John Caballero said:
Nikon uses the Sony sensors.
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For the mid-to-low end stuff. For the priciest stuff, Nikon uses their own sensors.

But I'm pretty excited about this 24mp sensor. If the downscaling is done well it could also be pretty ok in low-light. I don't buy the argument completely about more pixels equaling less light. Yes if all things are equal but compare an older 8mp sensor to a new 16mp sensor and the 16mp will be better in low-light (after scaled down to the same res).
 
Over at sonyalpharumors.com there are several posts speculating what capabilities the A77 will have, including 24p capabilities and a 16-50 F2.8 lens option. I guess we will find out soon enough.
 
I'm interested in the A77 as well. Canon better not assume that just everybody will buy the MarkIII.
I'm more into the stills side for the full-frame but i would assume it better be a true dSLR 2.0 for video.
I asked Panny if they would make a full-frame and they didn't respond. ;(
 
james thorpe said:
I'm interested in the A77 as well. Canon better not assume that just everybody will buy the MarkIII.
I'm more into the stills side for the full-frame but i would assume it better be a true dSLR 2.0 for video.
I asked Panny if they would make a full-frame and they didn't respond. ;(
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I don't think the A77 is full frame. APS-C is what I've been reading. Maybe I misunderstood?
 
People are getting a bit too exited, I don't think that Sony will endanger in any way the Sony fS-100. Some are talking about 10 bit hdmi output while the FS100 is only 8 bit. I see only a very consumerist codec, that's it. Other thing like moire/aliasing/rolling shutter etc might be decreased, but don't expect something extraordinary. I keep my expectation low, because I have been that much disappointed before, more so with Sony.
 
True, but if Sony gives consumers alias-free 1080p video from a 16 mp chip on the cheapo HV9X, its likely the video performance of the A77 will be as good or better.
 
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