FS5: Sony 18-105 initial thoughts

[BeeHop]

I bought a Sony 18-105 f4 OSS today, its a very interesting lens - hard to focus but kind of nice. Gotta get my head around this lens. Feels almost tailored to the consumer video market, but i could see myself using it in a professional low budget production

Compared to my Metabones Speed Booster with Canon 24-105 its quite lower in quality and not as sharp. I just don't know where this lens really fits.

For the moment I'm putting it on my new Sony a6300 as a B cam to the FS5.

If people are trying to decide getting this Sony 18-105 i'd definitely spend the extra on a Metabones Speed Booster with a Canon 24-105 its just so much more superior in IQ and focusing.

 

[mattjeh]

I've been using the 18-105 as my main lens since getting my FS5. I've come from an ex1 so I don't have any portfolio of lenses to use. I agree it is very tricky to focus and am certainly pining for a mechanically focused lens. If I've not missed something then the first E mount G lens with a mechanical focus ring is the FS7 kit lens which is approx £1500.

I've been looking for a cheaper alternative and have come across the canon 24-105 as an option. My biggest concern would be the lack of a servo zoom, how have you found it with your line of work? Do you ever miss the smooth zoom that the 18-105 provides?

 

[Doug Jensen]

One of the reasons big sensor cameras, such as the FS7 and FS5, are popular is because they can help provide a cinematic look to the video that looks less "videoy". But if you want to undo that look really fast -- just start zooming during your shots . In fact, if zooming during a shot is important to someone, they might be much better served by an X200 or some other smaller sensor camera with a fast lens and long servo zoom range. In my opinion, zoom lenses are convenient but they should be used as variable primes, so servo is not important. I'm sure others will disagree about zoomig, but that's my 2 cents.

 

[mattjeh]

Hi Doug, I bought your masterclass but it's been a number of weeks since I watched it last. Which was the cannon lens you recommend at the end? I'm really on a budget but I know it's important to get the best glass one can afford and im looking for that mechanical focus ring. Is the cannon a good option then?

 

[dvbrother]

For the moment I'm putting it on my new Sony a6300 as a B cam to the FS5.

Does the a6300 have the lens distortion compensation like the FS5? Without the built-in compensation, the 18-105 has a crazy amount of pin-cushioning. Even with the correction turned on, the lens has a slight amount of distortion compared to the Canon 24-105.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Hi Doug, I bought your masterclass but it's been a number of weeks since I watched it last. Which was the cannon lens you recommend at the end? I'm really on a budget but I know it's important to get the best glass one can afford and im looking for that mechanical focus ring. Is the cannon a good option then?

Hi Matt, thanks for buying the class. Yes, the Canon 24-105 is the one I recommend in my video, and it is still the one I like using as an all-around lens for my FS5 and FS7. It's nice and light, sharp, has solid focusing, and with a speedbooster it becomes a f/2.8 17-75. I got mine through Amazon as a "white box" special for about $650 (saving about $350). White Box means that it is a brand new lens but it was probably bundled with a camera at some point and was taken out to be sold separately. It was perfect when it arrived and I would buy a white box lens again.

 

[dmitrizigany]

One of the reasons big sensor cameras, such as the FS7 and FS5, are popular is because they can help provide a cinematic look to the video that looks less "videoy". But if you want to undo that look really fast -- just start zooming during your shots . In fact, if zooming during a shot is important to someone, they might be much better served by an X200 or some other smaller sensor camera with a fast lens and long servo zoom range. In my opinion, zoom lenses are convenient but they should be used as variable primes, so servo is not important. I'm sure others will disagree about zoomig, but that's my 2 cents.

Haha, I agree. Buuuuuuuut... One of the big strengths of the FS7/5 and the FS700, that I have, is their versatility. I use the 18-105 a lot when shooting live performances. I usually only have two cameras then so being able to use shots even during recompositioning (zooming) is quite crucial, which makes the powered zoom a very valuable asset. I still regret selling the 18-200 PZ. Coupled with face recognition the power zoom Sony e-mount lenses are great for filming live performances.
For more controlled shoots I use primes. But there's definitely a place for the power zooms!

 

[Doug Jensen]

Yup, everyone needs to figure out what suits their own needs best. Are you shooting these performances in 4K?

 

[bengiles]

Compared to my Metabones Speed Booster with Canon 24-105 its quite lower in quality and not as sharp.

My experience has been the polar opposite. I really like the 18-105 on the FS7. I think the 18-105 (at least, my 18-105) is tangibly better than my previous results with a 24-105 and speedbooster.

I shoot mostly 1080P, so that may be a factor. I don't bother using the distortion comp, as I don't find myself shooting material in which the pin-cushioning is an issue.

As I've said before, it ain't cool, but I like it.

 

[BeeHop]

Does the a6300 have the lens distortion compensation like the FS5? Without the built-in compensation, the 18-105 has a crazy amount of pin-cushioning. Even with the correction turned on, the lens has a slight amount of distortion compared to the Canon 24-105.

Yes the a6300 does have in-camera lens compensation, I leave it on and it works well with the 18-105 f4 OSS. I tried the Metabones and Canon 24-105 on the a6300 but it showed to much jello rolling shutter wobble. The Sony kit 18-105 0SS makes the a6300 very usable without that jello wobble. (well its still there but if yr steady its usable for me as i use it as a B cam to the FS5)


Regarding Zooming with the Canon 24-105 on the FS5 i have no problem - but i never use a zoom in the edit anyways unless its observational and i really need to. Also when you activate the clear image zoom you can zoom in nicely with the hand rocker on the long end of the 24-105 which does come in handy.

I feel the Speed Booster + canon 24-105 is the perfect fit for the FS5. It turns it into a very all purpose practical 17-75 constant f2.8 lens. I also have primes for low light and interviews when a very shallow depth of field is required.

 

[BeeHop]

Hi Matt, thanks for buying the class. Yes, the Canon 24-105 is the one I recommend in my video, and it is still the one I like using as an all-around lens for my FS5 and FS7. It's nice and light, sharp, has solid focusing, and with a speedbooster it becomes a f/2.8 17-75. I got mine through Amazon as a "white box" special for about $650 (saving about $350). White Box means that it is a brand new lens but it was probably bundled with a camera at some point and was taken out to be sold separately. It was perfect when it arrived and I would buy a white box lens again.

+1

I also bought a "white box" - 2 of them actually

 

[vanvideo]

I really like my 18-105. It's great for hand hold shooting. I love the zoom feature, it's perfect for video. I've had power zooms since I started working in video production over 30 years ago, and I don't plan on giving it up now. I agree manual focusing is difficult, and auto focus can't be trusted.
For the price, it can't be beat.

I am interested in the Sony 28-135, mainly because it's parfocal. That's a big feature to me. It's way more expensive, heavier and not very wide compared to the 18-105, but I still might pick one up.
Until I heard a rumor of a new 18-105, constant f4, parfocal power zoom possibly being introduced by Sony at NAB. Not sure if it's an APS-C or full frame E-mount. I guess I can wait a few weeks to see.

 

[ben1000]

Forgive me, but does this really turn the 24-105 into a 17-70mm lens? I had thought the speed booster had about a .71 crop factor... This would basically just negate the 1.5x crop factor that the FS5 (and FS7) has on a full frame lens... So that would mean that a 24mm full frame lens would be just about 25mm or so after cropping to the Sony size, and then back up with the speedster...

To put it another way, putting a 24mm lens on the speed booster would be the same as putting a 17mm lens directly on your FS5... Which would then crop it to 25mm....

Am I doing the math wrong here?

Best,


Ben

 

[alaskacameradude]

Forgive me, but does this really turn the 24-105 into a 17-70mm lens? I had thought the speed booster had about a .71 crop factor... This would basically just negate the 1.5x crop factor that the FS5 (and FS7) has on a full frame lens... So that would mean that a 24mm full frame lens would be just about 25mm or so after cropping to the Sony size, and then back up with the speedster...

To put it another way, putting a 24mm lens on the speed booster would be the same as putting a 17mm lens directly on your FS5... Which would then crop it to 25mm....

Am I doing the math wrong here?

Best,


Ben

You are not doing the math wrong, you are just using the FF field of
view as your 'standard of measurement' and Doug was using Super 35
as his 'standard of measurement'. 17mm in Super 35 = 24/25mm in FF.
So you are saying the exact same thing as Doug. A lot of motion shooters
do not use FF 'equivalents', they use Super 35 as their 'standard of measurement.'

 

[Wes.]

I feel it's important to note that in my experience the sigma 24-105 is a more consistent f4 than the canon 24-105 's claim of a consistent f4 as you zoom. As the lens approaches the long end on the canon you lose what I feel like is an entire stop of light. The sigma just doesn't do that. With all that being said, I own the canon 24-105 f4 and the 70-200 f4 along with it. The sigma's focus and zoom rings are reversed position of the canon's, which is odd. The footage is very sharp from the Sigma as well, Seems like a better buy but I'm not in a hurry to sell and re-buy....

 

[Nirv]

My experience has been the polar opposite. I really like the 18-105 on the FS7. I think the 18-105 (at least, my 18-105) is tangibly better than my previous results with a 24-105 and speedbooster.

I shoot mostly 1080P, so that may be a factor. I don't bother using the distortion comp, as I don't find myself shooting material in which the pin-cushioning is an issue.

As I've said before, it ain't cool, but I like it.

Interesting, I saw a video a long time ago on Vimeo that made the 18105 look pretty unusable without distortion correction as the pincushion was so extreme. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZaoGIUBD_0

Have Sony improved this lens?

There's a tenuous rumour that Sony are going to announce a 18-105 G Series lens at NAB. http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr2-sony-rumored-to-announce-a-new-18-105mm-pz-e-mount-cine-lens/

 

[Clermond]

Interesting, I saw a video a long time ago on Vimeo that made the 18105 look pretty unusable without distortion correction as the pincushion was so extreme. Have Sony improved this lens?/

no they haven't. There is an in camera lens correction for some camera models. For some cameras (FS700) it was added via FW update.

OT
here's an example of the 16-50SEL with/without lens correction on a a6300 at 16mm (same image)

 

[allenfacemire]

One of the reasons big sensor cameras, such as the FS7 and FS5, are popular is because they can help provide a cinematic look to the video that looks less "videoy". But if you want to undo that look really fast -- just start zooming during your shots . In fact, if zooming during a shot is important to someone, they might be much better served by an X200 or some other smaller sensor camera with a fast lens and long servo zoom range. In my opinion, zoom lenses are convenient but they should be used as variable primes, so servo is not important. I'm sure others will disagree about zoomig, but that's my 2 cents.

Have to agree with Doug. Original zooms were never meant to zoom hot but in things like sports, it's a must. Zooming for the sake of changing the FOV while rolling makes a statement, like underscoring a word in a sentence. However, if you "bury" the zoom during a dolly, jib or crane move or with a pan, it can be an effective tool.
"Zoomitis" is a no-no, that is zooming because you can. Kind of like panning. You pan from point A to point B not just because you can.
I would also like to add, the Kit lens which has the same parameters as the 18-105, is way too expensive for what you get. All you get is a better focus option so follow focus is possible. Not so with the SELP 18-105. But it's a sweet lens when you are on a jib and can't manually focus. It's a horrible follow focus lens. I dare say, almost in possible and the zoom is really just there to set a different focal length. Never use it as a cold zoom.
Doug is also correct that it would be much better to get a good stills zoom via a Metabones Speedbooster. A very good starter would be either the Canon or Nikon (my fav) 24-70. It's a straight 2.8 all the way through, nice and sharp and has very nice focusing characteristics. With the FS7 center punch option, you can turn that sucker into a 48-140, making it an ideal interview lens.

 

[JPNola]

One of the reasons big sensor cameras, such as the FS7 and FS5, are popular is because they can help provide a cinematic look to the video that looks less "videoy". But if you want to undo that look really fast -- just start zooming during your shots . In fact, if zooming during a shot is important to someone, they might be much better served by an X200 or some other smaller sensor camera with a fast lens and long servo zoom range. In my opinion, zoom lenses are convenient but they should be used as variable primes, so servo is not important. I'm sure others will disagree about zoomig, but that's my 2 cents.

Yeah, if you louts are going to start doing zooms then you might as well get a small chip camera. Harumpf!!

Really, Doug? What about shooting 60i? Is that allowable? I think the notion that zooms are not cinematic is a bit passé. Do I need to list some of the hundreds of feature films that use camera zooms? If the client wants a zoom, a zoom they get. I'm not going to tell them it isn't sufficiently "cinematic". Personally I want my kit to be as complete and versatile as possible. And that means having a servo zoom in my arsenal. Nothing beats a super-slow zoom ( creeping zoom ) when a interview subject is telling an emotional story. Okay, actually a slow dolly move beats a creeping zoom but it isn't often that 2-man crews have a Chapman dolly at their disposal. For the dirt cheap price of the Sony 18-105mm there's not much excuse not to have on as part of your kit should it arise that you need it. Heck, pick up two. A servo-zoom that covers from 18mm to 105mm, is par focal, and is under $500?? That's a gem of a bargain, warts and all. Before you remind me that money doesn't grow on trees remember the context here- it wasn't that long ago that a servo zoom for a video camera capable of professional jobs was in the $20k range. And $500 is roughly what one 128gb XQD-G card costs.

As far as that much maligned Sony 18-105mm, you may have heard the rumor that Sony is about to introduce an upgraded version of that zoom which, if the rumor is true, will become the go-to work horse for Fs7 owners that the 28-135mm hasn't been as a result of being too narrow on the wide end. I'm hoping that the new version has a manual iris and is a f/2.8 yet still maintains that snappy zoom action that I always found preferable to the zoom action of the 28-135mm. The rumor is that the new version will have higher resolution so, with the center scan possibility, it will effectively yield a range of 18mm-210mm. Who among us hasn't yearned for that sort of range in a single lens?

No hard feelings, Doug. I bought your video and my understanding is that each purchase comes with one instance of being able to give you grief. :cheesy:

 

[ben1000]

I second that emotion! Bravo!!

Ben